David Robb Out Of BMW
David Robb, BMW’s high profile Vice President of Motorcycle Design, has left the company under a shroud of secrecy.
Mystery surrounds Robb's departure which happened overnight soon after the EICMA Milan show in November 2011, where his two maxi-scooters – another first for BMW – were unveiled.
In Milan there was no hint this was going to happen. Even now BMW is not commenting, no announcement has been made and the news is not yet official, although a company statement is slated for early February, possibly when a new head of design has been appointed.
Insiders suggest approaches might have been made already to the Piaggio Group’s Miguel Galluzzi, best known as the man who created the original Ducati Monster, and MV Agusta’s Adrian Morton, but it’s equally likely the position will be filled internally by someone fully committed to the powerful BMW design ethos created by Robb.
One suggestion is the mysterious, shock departure is due to disagreements over the development of the Low Rider Concept, but nothing has been confirmed and the issue could be something entirely different.
David Robb – BMW Design Chief, 1993-2011
Responsibility for the rapid and sustained growth of BMW’s motorcycle division in the last decade inevitably lies with a lot of people. But the more closely you look, the more you keep coming round to design chief David Robb. Certainly he’s in a position of considerable influence not just as the man behind the styling of individual machines, but as the director of a team of some 25 designers and engineers at BMW’s FIZ design studio in Munich.
Robb moved to head the motorcycle design team in 1993, and he immediately asked some fundamental questions – obvious ones maybe, but at the same time, difficult. “I wanted to know why BMW was only making touring bikes,” he says. “We had 19 models covering just two and a half market segments, and we were fighting ourselves for these sectors.”
Clearly he was right, but doing something about it was much harder. “We moved to differentiate the RS from the LT, and now you can clearly see what an RS, an LT or a cruiser is. It used to be hard to tell our models apart.” This short statement covers a great deal of anxiety. The 1997 K1200RS was considered a radical move for BMW at the time - its avante garde styling, un-BMW-like attitude and the fact it broke through the company's self-imposed 100bhp power ceiling by some 30bhp were all highly experimental from a marketing point of view, and it wasn’t especially well received in every one of BMW’s markets. But other countries loved it, enough for the possibilities of Robb’s vision to be seen, and he was given the go ahead to continue his radical revisions.
Even so, it’s a sobering thought that had that RS not been a success, it is quite conceivable that BMW’s motorcycle division would have drawn in its horns and continued to play safe, which in turn would have meant the whole raft of exciting and original designs we have seen in the nine years since would not have happened. In turn, BMW’s extraordinary growth after the K1200RS, which has led to the company to its record-breaking 100,000-plus annual output of today, almost certainly would not have happened either. On the quiet then the K1200RS was absolutely pivotal to the German company’s fortunes at the end of the 20th century, and arguably because of the way in which it vindicated Robb and unleashed him, it’s the most influential BMW since the original R32 of 1923, the bike which started it all.
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Sat, 28/01/2012 - 09:21
#2
Seems a shame after all that David Robb has contributed to BMW's growth over the last decade or so. We can only hope that that Chris Bangle doesn't get the gig.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 10:05
#3
You have to say the style and design of BMW developed massively during Robbs tenure. The bikes are distinctive, stylish and unique and pass the test of time despite being 'modern'.
If he has been pushed out it's because he clearly disagrees with strategy.
Life goes on.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 10:09
#4
It's a real mystery, something pretty big has gone on but no one's saying just yet, and a genuine shock too, as you say, Robb IS BMW design. Sorry I can only speculate at the moment, I've heard a few things which I can't substantiate, but the news that he's gone at all isn't out yet... except here!
Haha, I think the bike division's safe from Bangle though, he wasn't exactly universally popular in the car division.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 11:14
#5
Well whaddya know. . . . perhaps now BMW will junk the 'liquorice allsorts' switchgear and conform with the rest of the world.
BMW's arrogance in thinking they know best is beyond belief.
I have had a few Beemers and sold them 'cos I cannot get on with the switchgear.
I would buy another next time if the switches were conventional, after all they recognised that race reps will not sell with Micky Mouse switches aka the SR 1000 !!
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 11:29
#6
Horses for courses. Personally I love the left/right/cancel arrangement and would never go back to the japanese style left/off/right.
BMW should make the switchgear optional either at the factory or the shop.
Regards
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 11:34
#7
Good point Oilhead. . . . It would be very easy to have the choice. Just multipin connectors into the loom for either set. . . job done !
I just think that for super sensitive throttle control it is better not to have any other controls on the right side.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 11:38
#8
Well whaddya know. . . . perhaps now BMW will junk the 'liquorice allsorts' switchgear and conform with the rest of the world.
BMW's arrogance in thinking they know best is beyond belief.
I have had a few Beemers and sold them 'cos I cannot get on with the switchgear.
I would buy another next time if the switches were conventional, after all they recognised that race reps will not sell with Micky Mouse switches aka the SR 1000 !!
BMW's arrogance in thinking they know best is beyond belief.
I have had a few Beemers and sold them 'cos I cannot get on with the switchgear.
I would buy another next time if the switches were conventional, after all they recognised that race reps will not sell with Micky Mouse switches aka the SR 1000 !!
The switchgear has gone conventional since the launch of the 800 series, S1000000000RR AND K1600.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 12:02
#9
Spot on ginz. On my K1200R the engine was way too powerful and responsive for fiddling with the right hand side cancel paddle when in city traffic situations. You tended to tweak the throttle a miniscule amount and cause a forward surge of acceleration just when you didn't want it. GS riders typically don't seem to mind it, maybe because it's so low powered/docile.
I swopped over the wiring so that the cancel paddle became the horn on the left side and viceversa. Then I actually preferred it to conventional 'Japanese' switch arrangement.
On BMW's future bikes I think a replacement for their 'old' cruiser is long overdue but those cylinders will still get in the way of feet forward leg positions, which I find quite relaxing on my Thunderbird especially with a rider's back rest.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 12:11
#10
"The switchgear has gone conventional since the launch of the 800 series, S1000000000RR AND K1600."
I wish but not so, I just sold an F800ST because of the Liquorice Allsorts switches.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 12:27
#11
OK. I do like Liquorice Allsorts but prefer Jelly Babies , guess the EEC will ban those given time.
Interestingly the conventional indicator switches on the K1600 are more than a thumb stretch ( I have large glove size) so you have to move your hand over........a real irritation, funny how small items spoil the BIG PICTURE but they do, ha ha...
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 12:37
#12
It's odd in some ways but during the pre launch teaser videos of the K1600 Robb did not look happy and I remember watching and thinking all is not right or he is just too serious.
There was a 20 minute or so interview sent out to registered interested parties.
However as he explained his thoughts regarding the bike design it became clear he understood riders, bikes and covering miles......very considered and clear thinking. He was prepared to take style and design risk which requires courage.......not unlike Bangle who, despite universal criticism, oversaw a significant increase in volume and market share, double digits, on every model he designed ugly.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 12:45
#13
I just contacted BMW and they confirmed they are changing models to the conventional switchgear system.
PRAISE THE LORD. . . . AT LAST THEY HAVE SEEN THE LIGHT !!
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 12:48
#14
The old indicator discussion again huh. I am happy either way. I don't see any real advantage with the 3 switch system over the common switch but for me there are no disadvantages either.
I do think it was a mistake to keep on to this system for so long and it does seem to have put people off the bikes, which is silly for such a small thing really.
Under Robb's influence BMW have been making some distinctive bikes and in my opinion the design strategy is a success. It will be interesting to see what happens with the next generation of machines.
On the Lo-Rider. Personally I like it. I don't see why you would not put it into production. Since the core platform is in existance surely the risk is relatively low and I am sure it would open new markets for them.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 12:55
#15
I'm with you on this one Herb.
Having had a number of BMWs I like the fact that the indicators can be switched on more easily (For me at least) but the turning off bit isn't as convenient. It's horses for courses as they say.
I think it's a shame that Robb has moved on. I do hope that his design language continues and I really like the lo-rider. It's very much like the design a small UK company called Mac Motorcycles has come up with.
Let's hope it sees the light of day.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 13:42
#16
There is obviously a whole lot more to this than meets the eye. Dave Robb, as stated, pretty much was BMW bike design over the past years. At least he was the public face and head of it, as I suspect it would be a bit dismissive of others efforts to say it was only him. That said we also have to accept that the company are not idiots and they can see what has happened to their sales/market share/public perception in the recent past. The split then would not be something that would happen lightly. On the other hand it also shows, perhaps, that no one man is bigger than an organisation. I am not saying that Dave Robb believed he was, in any way, as I simply don't know.
As for the low rider, I liked it a lot when I saw it at EICMA on its launch and I do hope they do something with it. It is as much a real bike as any other.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 20:40
#17
ginz: it's a good job you are not an airline pilot (or perhaps you are!) -those darn switches are all over the place on a Boeing.
I don't think it is arrogant of BMW to produce their design and it has to be pointed out that the system has a self cancelling function on canBus machines. On my old R1150GS I fitted a Kisan signal minder flasher unit that permitted same side cancellation from the paddle - very convenient and a shame that this is not possible on the canBus machines. I like the idea of converting the horn button.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 21:20
#18
Hello Kev, hello everyone.
Haven't posted in a while (new baby, work etc) - but this is the only place I've heard this news. Does beg the question of why? If Mr Robb was against the Low Rider concept then I'm with him, frankly. It would be a return to the (as I see them) bad old days of BMW. As an S1000RR rider, I can say that there are at least 3 bikes in the current BMW range that I could see myself riding - something I could not have said even 5 years ago.
We don't know the in's-and-out's of what's gone on internally at BMW, but put it this way - they were leading the field, so why go changing? BMW have been on a roll recently, and I think they "tamper with the magic potion" at their peril.
Mark
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 21:20
#19
Self cancelling signals.
My old 1984 Honda V65 1100 V4 has self cancelling signals.
I didn't even know it came with the bike until after I rode it.
At first I thought something was wrong or I had forgotten to signal a turn. When I reached to turn off the signal switch, the light was already off.
It was quite a pleasant surprise when I finally realized what had happened. It was like found money!
I have really come to like it.
If they could do it in 1984, why is it not a standard feature on all bikes today?
I believe the Honda VFR1200 doesn't have self cancelling signals.
JAG
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 21:27
#20
Self cancelling signals.
I have really come to like it.
If they could do it in 1984, why is it not a standard feature on all bikes today?
JAG
Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and the EU gang.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 21:44
#21
You have to be kidding roundincircles!
It's such a cool feature. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. You can still cancel the turn signal manually if you want.
I think the 1984 style worked on both distance travelled and even had a built in level sensor so it could detect a turn.
Did they see it as a safety issue?
It can't be that expensive to add on to a bike.
Regards,
JAG
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 21:54
#22
The current BMW system works on either distance travelled if above a certain speed or time if below. Needless to say it can be a b****** nuisance when doing the IAM test and signalling on M way exits.
Sat, 28/01/2012 - 22:15
#23
You have to be kidding roundincircles!
It's such a cool feature. You don't have to use it if you don't want to. You can still cancel the turn signal manually if you want.
I think the 1984 style worked on both distance travelled and even had a built in level sensor so it could detect a turn.
Did they see it as a safety issue?
It can't be that expensive to add on to a bike.
Regards,
JAG
JAG, You have reminded me all my current bikes cancel after either distance or 'winks' and the BMW determines if you are stationary at traffic lights or just held up before the junction and keeps winking, nudge nudge. Very clever.
Clever until you are overtaking a long line of traffic, with due caution of course, and it silently switches off after set distance or, nudge nudge , winks.Doh and Doh again!
Deadly stuff, now what's the answer to that in the Nanny State?.....let riders learn to be attentive?
please discuss.
Sun, 29/01/2012 - 00:23
#24
I like the self cancellers, i have them on my Harley XR like the beemer on both sides - means i never leave them on - had them on a RD400 never knew why they didnt catch on
suits me ! i think the explorer has them so it will be interesting to see the protocol
Sun, 29/01/2012 - 11:13
#25
Hi NIKOS,
Well actually I am a Pilot,Instructor & Examiner now retired with thousands of hours. I have flown the oldest Tiger Moth in existance and I have 1.5 hours in a Spitfire.
Mainly used the Collins panel and the switches and instruments are certainly placed logically both for ease of use and CRM.
Moreover the basic instruments on ALL aircraft are arranged in the a 'T' pattern.
At last BMW are falling in line, I wonder if it is a EEC regulation ?
Sun, 29/01/2012 - 12:32
#26
Very good observation roundincircles,
I never considered that it may not be distance but time or number of "winks".
You just may be right.
I'll have to check the old V65 when the weather breaks and I can dig it out of the snow.
For a few years I built an igloo winter garage to store it in. Worked out rather well, but timing was important to take the bike out before spring breakup. ;-)
Overtaking more than one car at a time? How long has that been going on?
JAG
Sun, 29/01/2012 - 13:38
#27
Very good observation roundincircles,
For a few years I built an igloo winter garage to store it in. Worked out rather well, but timing was important to take the bike out before spring breakup. ;-)
JAG
Jag. LOL you keep your bike in an Igloo, that's got to be worth a picture and story!
I have just reinsured a vehicle and they ask 'where do you keep your vehicle? 1. on the road, 2. on a driveway, 3. in a locked garage....' Erm no to all of that, in an Igloo....what did you say?An Igloo?
Sun, 29/01/2012 - 20:48
#28
Igloo Motorcycle Garages
A Canadian solution for winter shelters.
Easily built with materials just lying about, they offer a viable, affordable alternative to traditional construction.
No special tools required.
I am not aware of any Igloo building codes regarding electrical wiring or central heating. Please check your local municipality for restrictions.
Lighting is usually not an issue since day light does shine somewhat through the walls. Heating is another more difficult issue. Snow is a reasonably good insulator but may not be enough for extended periods of time when working on the bike. I have found that a portable propane 14,000 BTU heater works well. Just make sure you work REAL FAST and turn it off when you are done.
Icicles may develop on the edges of your ice block work bench with the heater on, but not to worry. They are perfect additions for your rum and coke.
Now for the best part – BEER – REALLY ICE COLD BEER! It’s never a problem with a snowflake house. Simply push your bottles or cans of beverage right into the wall. Imagine the delight of owning an abode with an unlimited supply of chilled bottle holders.
For a fashion statement I usually return the empties to their hole in the wall. Looks quite attractive by spring.
Igloo’s are COOL! (sorry I said that)
JAG
Sun, 29/01/2012 - 22:41
#29
On the bright side, they're still employing Ola Stenegard.
I like what Chris Bangle did. If you look at BMW before his tenure, they built a range of handsome but rather boring cars that basically looked the same, albeit at different sizes. Afterwards they became much more distinct.
In comparison, Audi's styling direction is significantly more conservative, and Porsche is continually ribbed about theirs on Top Gear.
BMW seem to be stepping back from the radicalism of the Bangle era, and I wonder if we'll be seeing the same in the Motorrad division. I hope not.
Incidentally, from a conversation with one of the BMW guys at the last Intermot, I was under the impression that the global recession killed the Lo Rider. I can't see a disagreement about its future between Robb and von Künheim causing such a dramatic exit.
Mon, 30/01/2012 - 11:17
#30
Incidentally, from a conversation with one of the BMW guys at the last Intermot, I was under the impression that the global recession killed the Lo Rider. I can't see a disagreement about its future between Robb and von Künheim causing such a dramatic exit.
I agree, although a disagreement about it might have been a trigger that fired up bigger, more deep seated issues, maybe von Kuenheim interfering too much with Robb's plans, something on those lines.
Mon, 30/01/2012 - 13:58
#31
It strikes me as a strange time for Robb to have left.
The R1250 GS LC (or whatever it's going to be called) has been spotted in testing, and I've seen spy shots of a new F800ST, which is getting pretty long in the tooth now. The K1300 series has enough special editions in its line-up this year to suggest it's going to be replaced before too long.
If he was coming up to the end of a contract or tour of duty then stepping down at the end of the year would have made sense from a "my work here is done" perspective.
Though, conversely, there is also the possibility that such a relaunch of the product range might be the ideal time for a new styling direction...
If it was a disagreement then I'd guess it would be because von Künheim wants a broader product portfolio, whereas Robb prefers a more focused range. The S1000RR and scooters represent new markets, then there's Husqvarna, and a a potential BMW cruiser. If the engineering team could be getting spread thinly, and some of the core products (such as the F800 range) are suffering from neglect.
Incidentally, Visordown published an interview with Robb that's worth a read, and there's another feature there too.
Mon, 30/01/2012 - 14:08
#32
Perhaps he is going to Triumph!
Mon, 30/01/2012 - 14:37
#33
Here is the Press Release for the new Head of Design. It reads like Robb only did the K1600
New Head of Design for BMW Motorrad. Edgar Heinrich takes over the BMW Group's BMW Motorrad Design Studio.
TOP
30.01.2012
Munich. Edgar Heinrich (53) will be taking over the BMW Group's BMW Motorrad Design Studio as of July 1st 2012. He succeeds David Robb. After completing his university degree in design, Edgar Heinrich started his career as a motorcycle designer with BMW back in 1986. Within the BMW Group’s BMW Motorrad Design Studio he was Head of Vehicle Design Motorcycles under the overall direction of David Robb from 2007 to 2009.
In July 2009 his career took him to India. As Vice President Product Design with the Indian vehicle manufacturer Bajaj Auto LTD he currently heads up the styling and model studio, responsible for brand definition and brand strategies for two-wheel and four-wheel design.
During his time with BMW Motorrad, Edgar Heinrich was responsible for such vehicles as the first 4-valve boxer models R 1100 RS and RT, the K 1200 S and R, the HP Megamoto and the victorious Paris-Dakar racing machines. The successful R 1150 GS and R 1200 GS were also created on his drawing board.
Under his direction, the motorcycle design team created the S 1000 RR, the F 800 / 650 series, the G 450 X and also the BMW Custom Concept study. Heinrich was even involved at the start of the design development of the 6‑cylinder touring bikes and the new maxi-scooters.
Motorcycles take up a large part of his leisure time, too. His passions include modifying sports bikes, restoring and collecting vintage models and in particular riding motorcycles himself - both on and off the road.
As Edgar Heinrich himself says: "I am very pleased to be returning to BMW Motorrad and having the great opportunity to be involved in shaping the two-wheel future of the BMW Group with an outstanding team."
"Edgar Heinrich is an excellent motorcycle designer and passionate motorcyclist who has already made key contributions to BMW Motorrad design in the course of his many years of experience. I very much look forward to collaborating with him to take BMW Motorrad design to ongoing success in the future," said Adrian van Hooydonk, Senior Vice President BMW Group Design.
David Robb (56), the previous head of the BMW Group Motorcycle Design Studio, has left the company. He was in charge of BMW Motorrad design for 18 years. Under his leadership, the design team elaborated the development of the BMW Motorrad product portfolio from three to a current total of six model lines, as well as creating the extensive product range of BMW Motorrad rider equipment and motorcycle accessories.
The first motorcycle designed under David Robb's direction was the BMW K 1200 RS. This was followed by such models as the first BMW cruiser R 1200 C, the innovative K series with transversely mounted 4-cylinder engine, the F series with 2-cylinder parallel twin and the most successful BMW motorcycle of all time, the travel enduro R 1200 GS. The design concept of the latter is regarded to this day as the benchmark in the category of big enduro bikes. Recently there were additional highlights such as the BMW motorcycles with in-line 6-cylinder engine, the K 1600 GT/GTL, and the BMW superbike S 1000 RR. The first BMW maxi-scooters C 600 Sport and C 650 GT only recently saw their world premiere in autumn 2011.
Adrian van Hooydonk, Senior Vice President BMW Group Design: "I would like to thank David Robb for his many years of successful work and wish him all the very best for the future."
Mon, 30/01/2012 - 14:44
#34
You know reading that press release BMW do not want to discuss Robb's next step.......you can bet Robb has a 'gag' order and/or there is some embarrassment on either parties side or........he is Triumph bound or Ducati, Honda or Norton, maybe even Royal Enfield.....Harley Davidson....no it's Mercedes new bike division, that's it!
OK, I will get back to my Tax Return as deadline looms, ahhhhhhhh
Tue, 31/01/2012 - 14:18
#35
One can only wonder at potential cost cutting measures that are planned by BMW. Their intention to source transmissions from Indian manufacturers may well be a precursor for further "cost effective rationalization" of BMW's motorcycles and cars.
The incoming replacement for Mr Robb certainly has the connections with Bajaj that would assist in that direction.
However Mr Robb may have just had enough and when you're at that point it don't take much ...
Tue, 31/01/2012 - 14:22
#36
Wonder if his nose was put out of joint by Hooydonk or Hooydonk's promotion to the top Corporate job?
Tue, 31/01/2012 - 16:56
#37
It strikes me as a strange time for Robb to have left.
I'm not sure there's ever be an obvious or easy time, there are always a range of projects going on at various stages of completion.
Incidentally, Visordown published an interview with Robb
Ah, but those are old ones... I've been in touch with the man himself and I'll be posting the first post-BMW interview with him at the end of this week - real live proper exclusive too! We've not gone into detail yet and there's plenty he won't be able to tell me but I should be able to dispel some of the rumours and get an idea of what's happening next. It'll probably be online on Thursday evening or Friday morning - keep an eye on the Home page Coming Soon box
Tue, 31/01/2012 - 17:22
#38
Kevin. You can tell Mr Robb that roundincircles rates him as a top designer bloke.
Seriously, it would be interesting to understand from him what he thought he achieved and what he was stopped achieving.....if you can get those thoughts!
I must say the 1200 GS put smiles on my face and changed my prejudice about bike versatility forever. You can have a versatile bike that handles, cruises and takes your gear all at the same time. Market changing.
Tue, 31/01/2012 - 17:42
#39
Seriously, it would be interesting to understand from him what he thought he achieved and what he was stopped achieving.....if you can get those thoughts!
That's an excellent question to pose, I shall definitely do that, thank you! And your compliments will be passed on too...
Tue, 31/01/2012 - 18:43
#40
There is a big difference between "concept" creation and "design" IMO.
For instance, whoever created the GS (Adventure) concept is a genius . On the other hand, the person(s) responsible for designing the R1200RT/K1300GT/K1600GT/L for instance, should be fired IMHO.
I know this is personal, but while the current designs have grown on me, they just aren't as distinctive as the RS, R1150RT,LT etc.
For instance, while the S1000RR is a fantastic bike, with exceptional performance, you can't tell me that it's beautiful! It's OK, but hardly striking.
If Mr. Robb was responsible for the GS, SRR concepts, for example - then we should worry. If he was simply in charge for their design, then I don't think there is much to lose sleep over.
Tue, 31/01/2012 - 20:24
#41
The GS tag goes back well before David Robb so in some ways is an evolution, but looking back, there is a very definite style shift about a year after his appointment I believe? I think that coincides with oil head engine, Telelever front end and the "beak".
I dont know just which part of that he was responsible for but I suspect very much the general identity of the GS from that point right through to today. Was the decision for things like oil head engine and Telelever pmade as an engineering strategy before his arrival?
Tue, 31/01/2012 - 21:35
#42
Actually, as an addendum to RIC's question, I'd be interested to know whether he favoured the more conservative or radical approach to design.
Thu, 02/02/2012 - 15:49
#43
As a BMW owner, I was really looking forward to Kev's scoop, but it looks like Mr. R just got gagged, given that Kev has had his interview postponed?
Thu, 02/02/2012 - 20:10
#44
I was looking forward to the scoop! As others have pointed out the new guy's Indian connections are likely to improve a tempting and easy route to increased profits.
Perhaps that's not a direction Mr Robb wanted to go, looks like we'll have to wait and see rather than know now.
Kev - is the interview still to take place i.e. will it be rescheduled or has it taken place and is embargoed?
Thu, 02/02/2012 - 21:56
#45
David wants to keep out of the limelight for a while and let things cool down rather than looking as if he's trying to grab the centre stage or anything like that, I think he's been surprised at the attention this has got!
I've been in touch already and will be talking with him at more length at some point, and if he's agreeable to me writing something as a result of that then I will, but I'm afraid I can't make any promises at the moment. But we've not been gagged or anything, there's nothing dark going on!
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I wonder if Herr Kunheim and Mr Robb have fundamentally different points of view.
Mr Robb has a track record of involvement with the design of "real" motorcycles however Herr Kunheim's interest in the Low Rider Concept may be more about combating the "funky" market niche exploited by Polaris / Victory than building real bikes.