Dunlop Roadsmart
Fri, 31/07/2009 - 21:01
Just coming up to first tyre change for my K1300GT and wondered if anybody here has experience of Dunlop Roadsmart. I do high mileage all year and mostly in the wet (or so it seems this year).
Tom
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 13:04
#2
Thanks as ever Ash - just
Thanks as ever Ash - just changed at 7600 miles and took your advice after reading you review and other comments on the web. New Angel STs on and looking forward to finding out just how good they are. The 5 miles home around Weston-super-Mare town centre and seafront felt good but not a true test as most of the time spent dodging children with ice cream cones!
Sat, 08/08/2009 - 13:39
#3
Let us know how you get on
Let us know how you get on with them...
Thu, 27/08/2009 - 09:54
#4
First 500 miles on the Angel
First 500 miles on the Angel STs complete and very impressed all round. I know that a new set of tyres always impress compared to the squared off old ones however I have never noticed such a big difference before. The ride quality (never bad) is much improved such that in roads I used to ride with ESA at comfort I now set it to normal. I have a few stretches of very poor A road on my commute with a long groove along the middle and broken tarmac either side - this always gave me problems on the Bridgestones but the Pirellis hardly notice it. Turning in is much quicker and the whole bike feels lighter. As to the wet - I agree with your comment on the other Pirelli thread - I never drive anywhere near the tyre limit in the wet and thus have not really noticed an improvement but it certainly isn't any worse. Finally fuel consumption seems a shade better - over this 500 miles I seem to be averaging almost exactly 50mpg whilst I was getting around 49 before.
Looking forward to hearing your views and all the best.
Must go - riding to Poole for a meeting.
Tom
Tue, 20/10/2009 - 08:55
#5
Bit of a delay replying to
Bit of a delay replying to this, sorry! The odd thing with the Angel ST is that it doesn't seem to be selling very well - I wonder if that change in tread pattern as it wears is being seen as too gimmicky or something. This would a real shame, as like you've discovered, it's a cracking good tyre, with lots of benefits that are unexpected such as ride quality - amazing though that it can make the difference in setting on the ESA! Different tyres do affect fuel consumption as some have less rolling resistance than others.
I'm glad you liked the tyre so much, at least it doesn't look like I was only saying nice things because of the Pirelli ad on here! And meanwhile hopefully soon I'll be getting some more advertising, now the site's upgraded I'm going to be pestering people for that...
Tue, 20/10/2009 - 10:51
#6
Just to add to this. My
Just to add to this. My Angel's are now a little over a thousand miles in and I am pretty pleased too. As I mentioned in here before I am not that convinced about the logo on the tyre but as Kevin also mentioned it is difficult to make a tyre interesting, which is a fair point.
.
The temperature here is hovvering around 3 Celsius in the morning and on this mornings commute there were a few times where I was expecting to feel a bit of a blip from the bike over dodgy looking surface patches but it never missed a beat. The grip so far has been great on them and I did get a chance a few weeks back to try them at a slightly brisker pace, so no complaints from me. I think I can best sum it up by saying that at the end of a ride, I get off the bike and the tyres generally don't enter my head, they have done a good enough job to not make me think about them.
Wed, 21/10/2009 - 00:55
#7
Why does a tyre need to be
Why does a tyre need to be interesting? From a technological point of view maybe, since the technology has a direct bearing upon a tyre's main function which is to maintain contact between the bike and the ground. Most punters realise this and will therefore attempt to purchase the most effective tyre for their circumstances that they can afford. When a company spends valuable research resources on developing a gimmicky tread pattern, as Pirelli have done, this gives the impression that they are not serious about the tyre. This is a shame if the tyre is a good one because I'm sure that the gimmick does in fact put people off buying it, hence the slow sales (Shuggiemac notwithstanding, who is probably using it for research purposes!)
Wed, 21/10/2009 - 08:15
#8
In my initial post on the
In my initial post on the tyre, some time ago, I was also non plussed about the changing logo and you make very good points in your post. To be honest it most certainly did not detract me from buying it but it also was not instrumental in me chosing it that was rather because I was delighted with the Pirelli's that I had on this bike before. There is, of course, no real world value in a changing logo to the end user but as Kevin pointed out, it was at least a talking point that may have got people to at least look at the product. It very possibly has back fired on them and in some ways I do feel it is a bit 'girly' having an angel on display on the bike all the time but it is not a huge issue for me. I have a similar opinion to you that a certain kind of novelty gimmick can actually turn element of bikers away - rememeber the Starck designed Aprilia Moto for example?
Pirelli have to try and get people to accept the new Angel as they have the Diablo range and in all honesty I believed that they would not release an inferior product to that which I was happy with and it was pretty much on the strength of that which made me buy.
Wed, 21/10/2009 - 09:56
#9
Yup, that's the point,
Yup, that's the point, Pirelli weren't trying to make the tyre interesting so people would buy it, they wanted to get more coverage for it in the press, so more people would be aware of it. It did work too, in the Daily Telegraph for example, where I also write, we don't usually mention new tyres exactly because they're not very interesting and we're much tighter on space for bike features anyway. But the Angel ST got coverage precisely because of the novelty factor, and also because Pirelli took us to Nardo in Italy to witness the 12 and 24 hour production bike speed records being broken.
I think now though the gimmicky stuff about the tyre might have detracted attention from its core values, which are that it's quite probably the best tyre in its class.
Sat, 21/11/2009 - 21:59
#10
I too have considered the Roadsmart but my
I too have considered the Roadsmart but my dealer will not fit them until they gain approval, which is crazy really as they are approved for use on the K1200GT!! A mate who is using them on his K1300GT reckons the ride quality is superb compared to the stock Metzeller Z6's and grip is much better in the wet. He cannot comment on longevity as yet.
Sun, 22/11/2009 - 22:29
#11
Pirelli 'Angels and Demons' are now newly
Pirelli 'Angels and Demons' are now newly fitted on my Guzzi Breva, 'girly' tread patterns and all (you are right about this, shuggiemac). I have fond memories of Corsa Diablos, but not of their longevity, so I will advise the mileage I get out of the ST's. The Angels follow what I can only describe as a bad experience with Bridgestone Battlax BT 021s, which from new did not have the feel of the Diablos, they made me feel much more remote from the road. The real problem though came when they wore out and went off, almost dangerously quickly. Within the space of two days the front tyre went from being fine to making any sort of white line impossible to cross without being pitched all over the place. Filtering in London became impossible. I've never had this problem before with Pirellis or even with older Bridgestone Battlax 45s. Strange.
Regarding sales of the Angels, my Guzzi dealer backs up what you say about poor sales, as my bike is the only one he knows with them fitted. Metzeler Roadtechs are standard fitment, and owners seem happy with these and refit what they are used to. I know that Metzeler and Pirelli are now one and the same, but the purist in me doesn't feel quite happy with Metzelers on a Guzzi!
JD
Sat, 15/05/2010 - 22:43
#12
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
Addition to previous post.
I had a set of Roadsmarts fitted to my K1300GT at the end of February when she had her 18,000 mile service. The wet and dry grip is superb, miles better than the 3 sets of Metzeller Z'6 fitted previously and much better than the BT021's fitted to my Blackbird too. Stabilty and cornering are superb as is ride comfort, much smoother. I too now use different ESA setting with these tyres although two up and loaded they get bouncy and I have to increase rear damping on the ESA by one. The sidewalls feel too soft when fully loaded. The downside is longevity. The Z6's all managed 6,000 miles and were not worn down to the wear indicators. The Roadsmarts are shot and will be swapped at 4,000 miles and I am a steady rider, no drag starts and seldom go above 80mph and even rarely top 3 figures. I am soft on the brakes too so this mileage is a major disappointment.
CL
Sat, 22/05/2010 - 16:47
#13
Re: Pirelli 'Angels and Demons' are now newly
The Angels follow what I can only describe as a bad experience with Bridgestone Battlax BT 021s, which from new did not have the feel of the Diablos, they made me feel much more remote from the road. The real problem though came when they wore out and went off, almost dangerously quickly. Within the space of two days the front tyre went from being fine to making any sort of white line impossible to cross without being pitched all over the place.
I think Bridgestone are quietly pleased to see the back of the 021s, their poor wear rates in particular did the brand's reputation no good. Well, they're still available of course and I've just ridden the Sprint GT which comes with them as standard, but the 023s should gradually replace them, and they're far better tyres in every respect.
If you've seen the GT test you might recall I had problems on that with it tracking across white lines, ridges and so on - I wonder if that was just the tyres then, seeing what you've written here.
Sun, 23/05/2010 - 09:19
#14
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
Addition to previous post.
I had a set of Roadsmarts fitted to my K1300GT at the end of February when she had her 18,000 mile service. The wet and dry grip is superb, miles better than the 3 sets of Metzeller Z'6 fitted previously and much better than the BT021's fitted to my Blackbird too. Stabilty and cornering are superb as is ride comfort, much smoother. The sidewalls feel too soft when fully loaded. The downside is longevity. The Z6's all managed 6,000 miles and were not worn down to the wear indicators. The Roadsmarts are shot and will be swapped at 4,000 miles and I am a steady rider, no drag starts and seldom go above 80mph and even rarely top 3 figures. I am soft on the brakes too so this mileage is a major disappointment.
CL
I had a set of Roadsmarts fitted to my K1300GT at the end of February when she had her 18,000 mile service. The wet and dry grip is superb, miles better than the 3 sets of Metzeller Z'6 fitted previously and much better than the BT021's fitted to my Blackbird too. Stabilty and cornering are superb as is ride comfort, much smoother. The sidewalls feel too soft when fully loaded. The downside is longevity. The Z6's all managed 6,000 miles and were not worn down to the wear indicators. The Roadsmarts are shot and will be swapped at 4,000 miles and I am a steady rider, no drag starts and seldom go above 80mph and even rarely top 3 figures. I am soft on the brakes too so this mileage is a major disappointment.
CL
Who would be a tyre designer? Blindboylank has pointed out one of the biggest problems- literally- for tyre designers. By far the most common tyre size for bikes these days is 120/70/17 front & 180/55/17 rear.
Bikes from the athletic & lithe Triumph 675 Street Triple to the powerful & obese BMW K1300GT use the same size, so where does a designer pitch the performance/longevity compromise? Obviously at the point in the market where most sales potential is and to be honest many more bikes using this common tyre combo will be 200kg/sub100ps middleweights than 300kg/150ps Autobahn trawlers.
Oddly enough the kind of folk who usually fret on the 'net about milage from sport touring tyre are the type of folk who favour big buck heavyweight tackle like FJR1300's K1300GT, GTR1400's ST1300 et al. The unasked question floating around my head is why buy the things if spending on rubber is such an issue. Luckily for me the tyre designers filter out such complaints from the extremes and continue to provide tyres with constantly improving performance with reasonable longevity. I am a big fan of RoadSmarts, I get about 5000km per rear tyre in recreational use and in the 110,000km I have put on my TRX they are along with Michelin PR2's the best tyres I have had the pleasure of wearing out.
Mon, 24/05/2010 - 09:47
#15
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
Oddly enough the kind of folk who usually fret on the 'net about milage from sport touring tyre are the type of folk who favour big buck heavyweight tackle like FJR1300's K1300GT, GTR1400's ST1300 et al. The unasked question floating around my head is why buy the things if spending on rubber is such an issue.
Since I just bought an FJR1300, I can shed some light on my own thinking. While the machine is admittedly not a budget bike, my purchase was heavily driven by an attempt to minimise overall travel costs. If I'm consistently saving money through my choice of journey and choice of bike then that's important to me, and over the lifetime of a bike it’s the consumables that are the killer, not the capital cost! So, coming back to the question you didn't ask: consistently spending money on tyres which don’t deliver high mileage on a bike bought expressly for high mileage doesn’t make much sense to me.
Mon, 24/05/2010 - 10:14
#16
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
By far the most common tyre size for bikes these days is 120/70/17 front & 180/55/17 rear.
Bikes from the athletic & lithe Triumph 675 Street Triple to the powerful & obese BMW K1300GT use the same size, so where does a designer pitch the performance/longevity compromise? Obviously at the point in the market where most sales potential is and to be honest many more bikes using this common tyre combo will be 200kg/sub100ps middleweights than 300kg/150ps Autobahn trawlers.
Although the size and the name will be the same, the tyres themselves are quite different depending on the bike. It's always important to make sure the tyre you ask for is the one designed for your bike, simply asking for a Bridgestone BT-023 in 180/55 x 17 isn't enough. The compounds are often tweaked and more importantly, tyres for heavier bikes have different constructions too - the 023 (which I'm mentioning as that was the most recent launch I was on) has special 'heavy' versions with stronger carcasses for bikes like the 1300GT and FJR1300, even though the basic specs appear the same as for other bikes. That's why on tyre company websites they have bike specific tyre selectors, and not just size options.
Since I just bought an FJR1300, I can shed some light on my own thinking. While the machine is admittedly not a budget bike, my purchase was heavily driven by an attempt to minimise overall travel costs. If I'm consistently saving money through my choice of journey and choice of bike then that's important to me, and over the lifetime of a bike it’s the consumables that are the killer, not the capital cost!
This also comes down to what most customers are demanding. On several new tyre launches I've been to recently, the manufacturers have clearly stated that although they could make tyres with a longer life, their market research shows riders are more interested in increased grip, as long as the mileage they're used to doesn't suffer for that. There's a basic trade off between grip and mileage, although improving technology means we're getting more of both, but where a choice starts to appear in having more of one than the other, then most people say they want more grip.
This is down to the typical habits of bike riders, most of whom only cover 4000 miles a year or less, in which case one set of tyres per year doesn't feel like very much, even though in mileage terms it is. While some people like MikeM do more miles, you're in quite a minority, and the tyre companies wouldn't sell enough high mileage/lower grip tyres to people like you to make it worth their development. There's a double whammy against that of course: as high mileage tyres, they'd sell even fewer anyway!
I got some good mileage out of the BT-023s I tried on the Bandit 1250GT and I'd recommend giving them a go.
Mon, 24/05/2010 - 10:22
#17
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
Since I just bought an FJR1300, I can shed some light on my own thinking. While the machine is admittedly not a budget bike, my purchase was heavily driven by an attempt to minimise overall travel costs. If I'm consistently saving money through my choice of journey and choice of bike then that's important to me, and over the lifetime of a bike it’s the consumables that are the killer, not the capital cost! So, coming back to the question you didn't ask: consistently spending money on tyres which don’t deliver high mileage on a bike bought expressly for high mileage doesn’t make much sense to me.
Maybe I am missing something important, but if consumable expenditures are of paramount importance then selecting a bike that by the very nature of its design is a high consumer has me baffled. You are right, running costs are not directly proportional to purchase price. They are directly proportional to:
- the bikes engine size (fuel consumption & insurance costs)
- frontal area (drag in steady state cruise fuel consumption & tyre wear)
- weight ( fuel consumption in acceleration, brake consumption in decceleration, tyre wear in both cases)
A FJR1300 is a fine machine, but it is about as far away from a low running cost bike as you can get.
So coming back to the question I did ask. Why would anyone expect high milage from any tyre fitted to such a very heavy, powerful bike?
Mon, 24/05/2010 - 10:37
#18
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
A FJR1300 is a fine machine, but it is about as far away from a low running cost bike as you can get.
It's surprising what comes out when you dig into these things. Assuming a minimum level of performance/reliability/motorway presence, the FJR did indeed turn out to be a darn sight better than some of the other options I modelled. Not the single lowest running cost, but a heck of a lot better than many.
Mon, 24/05/2010 - 11:33
#19
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
A FJR1300 is a fine machine, but it is about as far away from a low running cost bike as you can get.
It's surprising what comes out when you dig into these things. Assuming a minimum level of performance/reliability/motorway presence, the FJR did indeed turn out to be a darn sight better than some of the other options I modelled. Not the single lowest running cost, but a heck of a lot better than many.
That points to a flaw in the model then... and motorway presence is entirely subjective and impossible to model.
However this kind of thinking may solve one of motorcyclings greatest puzzles. Why accountants and HR types buy Harleys. Not only do they have "motorway presence", but they come with cast iron crossplys, belt drive, maintainance free hydraulic valve tappets, car oil friendly pre unit power trains & industry leading retained values. Way cheaper per mile than a FJR....
A more rational choice? BMWF800ST. Modest power, ABS, half the number of valves to check at service, belt drive, low weight, fantastic fuel consumption and good tyre milage (with the same tyre sizes as a FJR)
Left field choice? Moto Guzzi V7 classic. 45hp, shaft drive, cheap & hard wearing crossplys, home service with screw & locknut adjusted pushrod driven valves, dry clutch so car oil friendly... less motorway presence but much cooler than a FJR.
Yes your model is flawed, but why bother with it anyway? You enjoy your FJR so what does it matter? Yes it munches tyres but suck it up.... and simply get on with enjoying riding.
Mon, 24/05/2010 - 12:03
#20
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
That points to a flaw in the model then...
Ah, this has the makings of a great thread!
Tue, 25/05/2010 - 01:00
#21
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
That points to a flaw in the model then...
Ah, this has the makings of a great thread!
Absolutely.... its ironic that I stumbled onto this thread just having shelled out for a new rear RoadSmart. Paying the coin for a new rear is never easy, especially as I am self employed in an industry that the GFC has beaten to a pulp. Yet it only takes a sweet ride in the hills to appreciate that tyres have come a long way and offer much improved performance for the money. I get around 4500k/2800mile life out of a rear sport touring tyre, and have done all the time I have owned this bike. Yet the on-road performance of tyres like Pilot Road 2 & RoadSmarts is considerably better than the sport tyres of the BT010/D207/Pirelli Diablo generation that were worn out (for me) at 3000km. Better performance & 50% more life than the sport tyres I use to fit to the same bike only a couple of years ago is a fantastic improvement.
Kevin suggested that for an average rider thats one set per year, but where I live I am lucky enough to have a year round riding season so I average 2.5 sets of tyres a year. Kevin also mentioned that the new Bridgestone BT023 is split into two types, a general market tyre and a specific tyre for heavyweight bikes like the FJR1300. As Dunlop do not offer the same in the RoadSmart range I would make that switch as, like I said before, you are using the RoadSmarts at the extreme end of their design envelope and while they may well perform well expecting impressive endurance is unrealistic.
Mon, 07/06/2010 - 19:55
#22
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
Careful there DFH, you're either going to upset Harley riders or Accountants and HR types :)
One brand of tyre I never see reviews of is Maxxis. They are on the TT marshalls bikes apparently.
Last year I had a 2003 multistrada for 6 months with a maxxis on the front and it was fine, wet and dry.
THey are alot cheaper than the tyres usually reviewed and take out ads in the mags so I'm surprised that they don't appear in the comparison reviews.
Tue, 08/06/2010 - 09:02
#23
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
I have switched between Avon, Brdgestone,Michelin and Dunlop. Roadsmarts are now my default tyre due to grip, feedback,wet weather performance and ability to not square off. The latter is amazing - last year I crossed Holland and Germany on motorways to reach CK, Slovakia and Poland. On return 3000 miles later the tyres were not squared off - brilliant design which I was told is down to carcass construction.
As I only ride for leasure and cannot concentrate when at slow pace I get about 4/5k out of the rear and double from the fronts
Will put the new SportSmarts on my MTS 1200 to see how they last and perform.
I would have no hesitation re RoadSmarts BUT all makes seem to be advancing fairly fast so will try 023's and Pirelli's.
Thu, 24/06/2010 - 09:01
#24
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
BUT all makes seem to be advancing fairly fast so will try 023's and Pirelli's.
I feel like we've always been saying this, but the progress in tyre technology in recent years has been incredible. Since around 2003 the big three - Bridgestone, Pirelli/Metzeler and Micheling have all been coming up with tyres that are offering astonishing grip yet still providing acceptable wear rates, especially the latest ones like the Sportec M5, BT 023 etc.
Re Maxxis, I've not tried these myself but some journalists I know have done comparisons and they fall quite a along way short of the main players in terms of grip and wear.
Sat, 12/03/2011 - 20:11
#25
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
It seems we started this thread talking about Dunlops and now we seem to be talking about all tyres so I'll put my two pennith in and link in another thread ealier about advanced riding.
My every day bike is a Suzuki Vstrom and before I did advanced training I was getting about 8000 miles (Bridgestone Trailwing) per rear tyre and ever since my training I get about 11000 miles (Bridgestone Trailwing) per rear tyre. I have recently changed tyres now to Continental (Conti Attack) but only as a trial because I had heard that a BMW GS rider got 15000 miles out of his so thought I would give them a go, failing that I will go back to Bridgestone's again.
Oh, so going back to advaced riding it can save you money in other ways and thats a big plus isn't it.
Tue, 19/07/2011 - 13:00
#26
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
Hello.
I just wanted to add my comments to this old thread. I had a pair of roadsmarts fitted to my BMW r1200s last month.
The bike came with Metzeler M1s originally, which were fine in terms of performance, but the rear was shot at 1800 miles. The replacement m3s were better in terms of life, with the rear lasting 4000 miles. (perhaps another 500 miles life left in the rear, front looked fine). I lost confidence in the m3s as I could easily get the rear to slide in the wet / damp. Being as I am not Casey Stoner this was not a good thing.
The Dunlops are amazing. Just got back from a 2500 mile trip around Europe and both tyres still look brand new. The profile is not as agressive as the M3s, so I have been riding at the edge of the tyre (no chicken strips is good for credibility I suppose), but this does not seem to cause any problems. I certainly had more confidence on these than any other tyres I have had.
Where they really shone though was in the wet. Crossing the Gerlos pass in very heavy rain, I was able to corner much harder than I would have ever believed possible and did not have a single moment.
From what I read, these tyres have been superceded by the Michelin PR3 and the Bridgestone BT023. That said, the Dunlops were considerably cheaper being as they have been around for a few years. I would strongly recommend these tyres.
Tue, 19/07/2011 - 13:20
#27
Re: Dunlop Roadsmart
I've got to agree with Herb. I fitted Roadsmarts to my Tuono late last year and after 4,000 miles they still have plenty of tread showing and that mileage includes a near non-stop thrash from Magny Cours to Silverstone. Wet grip is fantastic and as far as I'm concerned the bike feels as planted as it did on the Pirelli Diablos previously fitted. I'll certainly go for them again.
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I've not tried that tyre, so far I've only had the stock Bridgestones. The bike does start to tuck in noticeably in corners when they're worn, though not as badly as the K 1300 S. I was going to replace them with Pirelli Angel STs next as I tried a GT with these on the tyre's press launch and was very impressed with the directional stability. Pirelli claims the ST has the best wet weather grip and shortest stopping distances of any of its rivals too, though I haven't been able to test that myself.