What's the best touring bike? (2)

"I've worked my way through this thread, and can find only one male who seems particularly concerned about how the pillion would feel"
... if only it got me laid more! ;-D

I think I'm right in saying that many years ago one of Kev's female passengers once had a very 'joyous' experience on the back of a K1200S?

Indeed my wife used to like my 'old' K1300S, for distance work, but never did say why! ;-D

As a magnet of such things I've never ridden any bike more female attention grabbing than the Diavel. I've even had women passengers in cars taking photos of it (I'm not pretty enough!), with their iPhones, as I've cruised along side them.

It'd be easy to say the best tourer is the bike you have or the one you look back on with rose tinted spectacles. But I guess when posed, we're generally more concerned with what's currently available from new stock. And then we have to seek whether the bikes in question are classified by the manufacturers as tourers, or by ourselves?

I've been doing a fair bit of analysis of the Adventure category, which has kind of been sub-split into Adventure-Tourers (GS, XTourer, Tenere, eXplorer), Adventure-Sports (MTS, SMT, T8, etc) and Dual Sports (Tiger XC, KLR650, etc).

One question that springs to mind is are Adv-Tourers the new Tourers? And if they are, then are Adv-Sports the new Sports-Tourers? I'll let the market decide, although K16GT aside there's not too much metal in those areas compared with the explosion of fifteen or so Adventure styled bikes now available.

For my own needs, I'm coming to the conclusion that my next bike will probably needs come from the Adv-Tour class. Each of the top-four Adv-Tour choices for 2012 have their pro's: the Yam's reliability has been proven by Nick Saunders 50k jolly and engine/box strip-down (BIKE mag). The eXplorer is the most powerful and has the best standard spec. The GS is a known quantity of continual evolution. And the Honda has the most torque and visually appears to be the best finished and built.

When looking at ptw (hp & torque), fuel capacity and std spec's the three newer (LC, 1200cc, Shaft) bikes are actually incredibly similar. Like Jag, I'm a number cruncher, but bikes aren't (just about) numbers, so I'll probably wait for the launch tests (Triumph/Honda) and subsequent group tests, before deciding which direction to go in.

And also whether the Diavel stays or has to go to help in the funding process. Then again the wife does say that the Diavel is 'really' good for pillions. Hang about, the Diavel does resinate a fair bit! ;-D

Sid, Kerb weights, in Kg, including full tanks of fuel are:

275 X-Tourer
267 Tenere
260 eXplorer
251 Stelvio
246 GS
239 Versys
234 MTS
215 SMT
215 Tiger XC
210 Tiger

Taking into account PTW (hp & torque) the Triumph and (class-leading 92 lb.ft) Honda are fairly close. The Honda does look premium quality, but the Triumph looks well built, with better std equipment and probably more characterful engine. Both should be stellar bikes within remit.

Many will of course wait for BMW to upgrade the GS in 2013. But when it's wearing a wet jacket it's weight could easily go up 25-30 kilo (radiator, plumbing, water) and I don't think they'll up power beyond 130 hp initially, so it could be a long wait to have what will already be in the shops shortly - without the Russian Roulette with the driveline connotations. So BMW being 'not worried' by the new bikes, should be. The GS will probably outsell all others for the next decade and maybe beyond. But it's slice of pie is likely to greatly diminish. As an ex owner and GS fan, I say about time too!

" Kev's female passengers once had a very 'joyous' experience on the back of a K1200S?"

- Passengers? Is that a typo or was he being greedy?

"One question that springs to mind is are Adv-Tourers the new Tourers? And if they are, then are Adv-Sports the new Sports-Tourers?"

- I think it's a case of 'different horses for different courses'.

Where I live there are superb A roads and some superb B roads through the mountains courtesy of the EU (or Germany really - danke, Deutschland!), AND track days at the Autodromo. But, there are also bumpy B roads, cobble streets, potholes and 2 miles of gravel track to my abode. The 1050 does all of these due to it's long travel front forks and 180 rear rubber. the 800 and 1200 would lose out on the good windy mountain B roads and the track day with smaller rears, but would of course do better off road.

The UK and Western Europe? In the past I might have gone for the Trophy, mainly because I am vertically challenged in the leg department (5'10", but only 30" in-seam). However, I say 'in the past' because I predict that there are going to be a lot more potholes and poorly filled potholes in the future, so I would now go for the Sports-Tourer 1050 and put on a lowering kit, as I have done to my present bike anyway, knocking the seat height down to about 810 mm from 835 mm. I did not lower the front at the same time because I first wanted to see how it's 'flickability' would be affected by lowering just the rear. Surprisingly, it did not seem to make a difference maybe because lowering the CofG compensated for the slightly increased rake at the front end, or maybe because I'm too old to spot the difference. Where I definitely did see a difference was with the wind protection for myself, and the pillion seat height for my little old lady.
Just in case I had not spotted the difference due to age, I also consulted my dealer/mechanic Tiago (manager of the newly opened Triumph shop at the Autodromo, current Portugal supersport 600 champion on a Daytona 675, and all round nice guy). His response to my enquiry as to whether I should drop the front end by 7 - 8mm was 'not necessarily', i.e. maybe no, maybe yes. A more comprehensive answer was not forthcoming due to language problems, so input from this forum on the subject would be welcome. Reward would be a guided tour of the Monchique mountains...if you bring your own bike. Hey, it's only a couple of day's ride from Santander and you could combine it with the Faro Rally.
Off thread a bit, but in conclusion, I reckon it all depends on which kind of courses you are most likely to use.

"Then again the wife does say that the Diavel is 'really' good for pillions."

- And from the pics I have seen of Diavels it does not look to have a comfortable pillion seat, so there must be another reason. Maybe after a ride on a dry day, check to see if the seat is wet? ;-)))

I would venture that he lives in the South of Portugal, more precisely in the Algarve region. :-)

From the description of the nice EU subventionned roads I immediately thought "Spain"! Well, that was close.

Hey, AlgarveTiger, I'm not too far from you. I hope we get to meet and ride a little one of these days.

Love to Ninou. Where are you? Northern Spain?
If so might be coming to Santander next year to meet a friend off the ferry and return for either the Faro rally (always 3rd weekend in July, every year, this year was Iron Maiden, say no more) or the WSB at the Autodromo (23rd Sept). Kind of vague because I cannot predict my work schedule this far ahead. Other option we are contemplating is Motorland Aragon.
Anyway, if you want to come down South yourself at anytime do let me know.
First pic is back of Monchique, zero traffic, see the twisties in the distance, they go on and on. Second pic from near top of Monchique has Autodromo on the left in the distance, can't really see it in the pic but you can hear it.
:-))

To be honest no I didn't read all of it. I was at work at the time and was flicking through things while others were blowing hot air. I just thought with the reference to Germany and highways that you may have been closer to their border. I am in parts Czech and they did lay down our highways but under a different regime and time.

I shall read your words in depth now that I am firmly ensconsed in the smallest room of an otherwise average hotel suite.

Thanks for the expert advice on rubbers Cap'n,
Another interesting subject for me; skinnier and more sensitive or thicker and safer? Seriously though, I think this brings to the fore another factor. You can have the same size rubber with different profiles according to which manufacturer/type you use. I say this from experience.
When I bought my Tiger 1050 it had an almost new rear Bridgestone Battlaxe and half used one at the front. When I got round to using the bike on low speed twisties I found that I had to drag the bike over and then keep heaving on the bars to combat understeer once over the other side. Having read good reviews of the Roadsmarts, I decided to change the rubbers almost immediately rather than wait for them to wear away (anybody interested in an almost new 180 Battlaxe?).
The Dunlops seem to be almost psychic, pointing the bike in the direction I want it to go with minimal input from myself. Even when changing direction during an unknown corner they respond magnificently, and I find I can use the rear brake on downhill corners without my pants going brown. I have now done over 3000 Ks on the Dunlops with no noticeable change. It seems to me that the choice of rubber manufacturer/profile can make a huge difference.
So, question - could it be that the rear manufacturer/profile is making the huge difference or the half used Battlaxe at the front end causing the initial problem? Or both?

I put roadsmarts on my XR1200 - its a gem with those tyres - its on rails ten times better that the original American Dunlop qualifiers , my colleague has them on his Tiger 1050 and i guess that once half worn i will go that way with the Explorer.

If you can feel ridges on your front tyres on the water grooves, you will get more pleasure if you replace or if you look down from the top on the front tyre profile and its looks in any way triangular - dump it

Thanks for the input guys.
I vaguely know the person I bought the bike from and it is quite possible that he accepted the wrong profile when he changed the rear. Also looking at the two tyres side by side I could see that there was a big difference, with the Battlax looking flatter even though it was still on the bike and pressured up. I'll look at the Battlax again when I get back from work next week and check out the BT number.
The front was still in reasonable condition though it looked more worn in the middle of the tyre. The side of the tyre was in good condition and did not have any ribbing on it, probably because the he used the bike for regular transport and was not into scratching, and had his partner as pillion much of the time.
Know a bit about ribbing and lifted rubber as I used to have Avon Roadrunners (I think that was the name) on my CB 750 K1 in the late 70s. They were the dogs bollocks at the time, but after 1000 Ks or so and a bunch of high speed (for then) tank slaps, the tyre looked corrugated and you could see the rubber lifted on the squiggly tread pattern. I found I could delay the onset of fork shake better by pushing on the handlebar rather than pulling.

Ouch. Congratulations on your dedication to the cause in the face of such outrageous prices (whereabouts are you?).

I've owned both the GS and the big XT. I somewhat prefer the way the Yamaha rides, and much prefer it as a bike to own, but then again my GS was possibly more than normally troublesome. The impression I get is that some of the problems (ignition ring antenna, fuel pump) have been sorted on more recent GSes but there are some remaining concerns regarding the long-term durability of the drivetrain. You'll find loads of information/ views/ arguments from owners of both bikes here: http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=5
and here:
http://www.advrider.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=3

There's no CAN bus on the XT1200Z, and no service indicators requiring hook-up to a dealer system to extinguish. Valve clearance check intervals are longer too, I think. The wiring's all laid out behind the right hand side panel and the tank hinges up quickly. So it looks a bit easier from a home servicing point of view (not that I've actually tried). Yamaha dealer servicing is cheaper than BMW for me, in the UK.

If you've any other questions that you want a subjective (and sometimes frankly biased) answer to, then please shout out. I had an XJ9 for a while too and it's a bit of a legend, so I'd be tempted to hang on to that for winter duty until it finally expires. The Sumitomo-type callipers on most current Yamahas are more weather-resistant but still benefit from a strip down whenever the bike is serviced (my dealer does it without being asked, and regardless of what the schedule actually says).

Denmark exotic? Erotic maybe.
I'd go for somewhere like Singapore. Exotic ......... and triple value import duty.

Loved my XJ900. maybe the last great aircooled 4? And you could actually work on the engine: it seems to get more and more difficult to do this nowadays.

It wasn't exotic. It was "exotic".

I took that to be exotic with irony. :-)

MoDa said: "A little more global warming, and perhaps the days of salty roads will be long gone."

It is now "climate change". Wait a little longer and it will be the "new ice age".

Thinking more short term, we've had heavy rain this week, washing all that nasty salt away. Forecast for the weekend looking good.