What's the best touring bike?
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 10:59
So what constitutes the best touring bike? Is it GoldWing style comfort and smoothness, BMW uber-distance machines or tall-rounder versatility? I like comfort and good wind and weather protection to get the distance out of the way, but I also want something that's fun when I arrive. Tall-rounders are doing it for me at the moment, although some of that's due to me being tall and them having the most spacious riding positions. But I like the height as well.
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 12:32
#2
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Depends what type of touring (riding) you're looking for...
For what I am looking for (spirited road riding) I have found what is to me the best touring bike: KTM 990 SMT!
Does everything superbly and is always fun!
Only drawback is lack of ground clearance on the track!
Of course it could be improved, but as it is, it's the best bike I've ever had, bar none.
In general, like you, tall rounders do it for me for my version of "touring": MTS 1200, GS 1200, Tiger 1050...
My perfect tourer would be a KTM 1190 SMT with electronic suspensions, adjustable foot pegs (for the track), more info on the display (accessed from the handlebars) and a sub 200 kg wet weight.
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 13:13
#3
Re: What's the best touring bike?
It's a good question and one that has cost me far too much in searching for the aswere! Here is my list.
1. Character full engine with loads of mid-range torque ( 'L' twin, Boxer, triple come to mind)
2. Good balance which usually means low weight,easy turn in, low speed manouverability. 220 kilo wet is good
3. Ideally low wind noise
4. All day backside comfort and bar reach ( the MTS scores well )
5. 200 mile tank range
6. Light clutch pull allied to reliable box that does what it is supposed to do.
7. Aerodynamics that keep rider and passenger reasonably clean in wet weather ( the GS is a 'dirty bike' even though a great Tourer.The MTS seems clean.
8. Reliable so get you A to B and thus starts/fires up without question
9. Stable at speed but entertaining in the twisties.
10. Brakes that you can modulate.
That is why TallRounders seem to score as they generally deal with the 'trade offs' well.
But having listed all that I have just ordered a K1600, 350 kilo 90% wet with a 1610mm or so wheelbase, so I continue my quest but the GS and MTS ( which I will keep) are close to the best - if I could find a solution to wind noise on the MTS it would be one of the best of all for me.
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 13:48
#4
Re: What's the best touring bike?
You've ordered a K1600 already! I'd say that's brave but I very much doubt it'll be a bad 'un. You've gone for the GT?
I'm with you on most of those points, and the Multi does very well, in fact it's the most comfortable long distance bike I've ever ridden, wind noise aside. I'd like a genuine 200 mile range, ie you can cover 200 miles at normal speeds and still have a reasonable reserve left.
But the Sprint GT is a promising alternative take, and I tell you what, a lot of people would be surprised at how much you can chuck a GoldWing around!
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 14:14
#5
Re: What's the best touring bike?
I have hedged my option between GT/GL, subject to the ergonomics, which really boils down to the bar position. The GT seems to have the bars two inches forwards of the GL with seats replicable between bikes and pegs about one inch lower and forwards on the GL.There is a question about the GL having softer suspension but it can have a higher payload according to the specs which is at odds?
Basically I can't resist BMW six cylinder engines even though the low speed handling will scare the hell out of me.
I can't see how the GT is more sporty if it has the same frame, suspension, steering angle etc but just shorter bars?
Anyway it is a risk ordering one but I have a long trip planned, two up, early in the new year and my wife mentioned the MTS is cramped but cahanged her mind when she heard the price of the Beemer!
I will keep the MTS as it is the most comfortable sports tallrounder I have owned with lightness and agility thrown in. The engine justs gets better, smoother and ballistic or docile. I also think it is innovative of Ducati to let the panniers lower mass with water ingress - it has introduced me to the world of Bin Bags and how the Norwegians lead the field, even beating the Swiss.
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 14:10
#6
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Blimey RiC, that's some garage you'll have there!
I agree with your criteria but you've missed luggage out, which is surely an important one. Given your BMW background, I assume you're a 'hard yet detachable' lover, preferably with no damp patches.
The quandary I suspect many of us have is that we probably also lust after slender, curvaceous, uncomplicated and laugh-out-loud cheap thrills, probably unsuitable for long-term relationship and therefore best enjoyed over short distances.
I've confessed elsewhere to inclining more to the latter, then bunging on luggage for those few weeks of the year when, realistically, most of us have the time to escape on two wheels. Shuggiemacs ingenious solution can be seen here http://www.ashonbikes.com/forum/monkeystrada
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 14:31
#7
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Kevin, if you can break up the bar room brawl that is currently 'Triumph Sprint GT', the participants are supremely qualified to add wit & wisdom to this thread, preferably without vitriol (a product unsuitable for use in motorbikes).
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 14:43
#8
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Ha, there are signs it's drawing to a close and they've been a lot more civilised than on most forums - i did add a GT-related comment, a few more should get it back on track, but tucked away in the yapping are some reasonable points anyway.
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 14:59
#9
Re: What's the best touring bike?
As already is so evident this is subjective and hopefully this shall turn into an interesting thread.
For my part the best touring bike is whichever one that I have in the garage at the time. Sounds a bit strange for sure but I honestly have a huge amount of fun touring on the Monkeystrada, as per the pics of the bike in the thread that Silvercub started of that name. It is, more than anything a laugh and in so many ways encompasses a lot of the essence of biking for me. OK I admit if I am to head off on a journey and time is of the essence then it is not the best choice. So in those terms I want something that will be comfortable, have the facility to at least strap on my luggage, if not able to have bespoke panniers etc and be able to get the pulses racing both on the way and when I get to where I want. My old ST does all of this but for sure it is getting dated now. I guess the Multistrada would be my choice if I was to make a modern day decision.
It is so difficult to give a general answer as there are so many different kinds of tours, let alone touring bikes and by its nature it could be argued by some that a generic "Allrounder" is a jack of all trades and master of none. A GS may not be the choice of all for mile after mile of southern European or Stateside highway mile munching in the summer where some may want the easy chair experience and a full knobs on stereo, banging out Steppenwolf. At the same time one of the worst bike experiences I ever had was trying to wrestle a Road King around alpine twisties, though I suspect that was just a poorly set up bike. However is there really any other real choice when picking a bike for touring the Indian Himalays than an Enfield, or doing route 101 on the West Coast of the USA than an Electra Glide or ......?
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 15:16
#10
Re: What's the best touring bike?
My R1200RT has to be very near to the top of this particular list. Good engine, good fuel range, comfortable, excellent weather protection, cruise control for the boring bits and ESA for the fun bits.
What's not to like?
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 16:50
#11
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Surely it's also a case of what you want versus what you think you want?
I reckon that for a sports tourer it come be summed up as having the mission statement of being capable of being ridden to and from the Nurburgring, and having fun when you get there.
For me the former would be something along the lines of an updated BMW R1200S, with the ergos of the HP2 Sport (that bike fits me perfectly), the weight and power of something like the Multistrada, hard luggage, traction control, ABS and electronic suspension.
That said, when I test rode a VFR1200 earlier this year it killed my wrists. I've got occasional tendonitis issues, and so a slightly more upright position suits. So maybe a seating position closer to the K1300R.
The upcoming Z1000XS / Ninja 1000 is probably the closest to the above. I'm waiting to see what the Diavel is like, but if it errs more on the muscle bike than Harley rival then it could be a road biased version of the Mutley. With a stupid rear tyre.
In reality, I suspect that if I was doing serious distances than Navy Boy's R1200RT would be the ideal bike, or maybe a big GS. It's lighter than most tourers (though not the tall rounders), but might not be what you want for playing on. Though I understand that the Boxers can surprise other riders.
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 17:01
#12
Re: What's the best touring bike?
If you ask Ted Simon who went round the world on a Tiger 500 back in the seventies, I think his response might chime with Shuggie's. I've just finished reading his Jupiter's Travels and it struck me that for touring of that sort - desert, savannah, high mountain passes, I'd want the lightest bike I could get; maybe a small engined trail bike.
For tarmac touring, I'm drawn to the Goldwing as much for the bling/panache as the comfort, though I think the new 1600GT would be very tempting as it looks a fine compromise between weight, aerodynamics and power. Though I've read so many good things about the 1200RT I think that could be the tarmac top tourer.
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 17:27
#13
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Ah, but when you got somewhere interesting on your RT, fine handling bike though it is, a Kawasaki Versys would be a lot more fun up an Alpine pass.
But then Nick Sanders went around the world on an R1...
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 17:39
#14
Re: What's the best touring bike?
And the septuagenarian Simon Gandini travelled through central and south america on a Honda CB125. Now continuing his travels in USA, I think.
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 18:46
#15
Re: What's the best touring bike?
First of all - welcome back Kevin.
What a great question, albeit with many possible answers. It really depends on what kind of touring, weather conditions, type of roads, one/two-up and ones priorities.
It also seems that North Americans define Sport-Touring a bit differently. We travel longer distances and our roads have enforced speed limits. For instance, my priorities would possibly be different if I lived in Italy.
IMO, a sport-tourer should have the following characteristics:
1. shaft drive
2. Cruise Control - very, very useful on long speed limited highways.
3. Adjustable Suspension
4. Good weather protection - helps in rainy/cold conditions.
5. 220+ mile range - which allows you to ride 200 miles between fill-ups.
6. All Day Comfort
7. Good luggage - although this can be added.
8. Excellent performance
I've basically described my K1300GT - but it does cost a fortune and weighs a bit much for really tight twisty stuff IMO.
BMW's RT comes to mind, but IMO just doesn't have enough punch. Yes, the Goldwing is surprisingly good, but just too big and slow.
The MTS can do the job (almost bought one), but again IMO, doesn't have enough wind protection, not enough range, no shaft and no cruise - but is better in the swisty stuff. Ditto for the KTM SMT. Priorities, priorities...
One bike just can't do it all.
Cheers,
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 19:07
#16
Re: What's the best touring bike?
If you ask Ted Simon who went round the world on a Tiger 500 back in the seventies, I think his response might chime with Shuggie's. I've just finished reading his Jupiter's Travels and it struck me that for touring of that sort - desert, savannah, high mountain passes, I'd want the lightest bike I could get; maybe a small engined trail bike.
It's been nice to see Ted Simon undergoing something of a renaissance in recent years (which I suppose you can attribute to Ewan'n'Charley, although Ted relates a far more authentic experience and actually writes it well, too). When it first came out "Jupiter's Travels" fired my (then teenage) imagination as to what was possible as a traveller going by motorcycle, and I suspect birthed countless other dreams and subsequently unfulfilled plans. Instead of "travelling, by motorcycle" we wage slaves have ended up "touring" during our few weeks' meagre holiday entitlement each year, for a limited distance over well-travelled routes. Bikes (and luggage, with the exception of certain brands of top box) are so good these days that you can accomplish this on pretty much anything. What we in fact choose to buy and use as a touring bike is as much down to who we wish we were (and where we'd prefer to be) as it is to any particular capability of the machine. Hence the smooth, signposted roads of Western Europe are patrolled by bikes modelled after desert racers while GoldWings cream across US blacktop with their controls set for the heart of the next metropolis...
Rage, rage against the dying of the light, indeed. Particularly so if you ever had a CG with crappy 6 volt electrics.
Wed, 20/10/2010 - 19:17
#17
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Aye Rocca, JT was well written if a bit purple-prosey in places for me. I ended up much more interested in the stuff he left out, especially from his California stop-over. But he's still around and seems healthy and well; he's lived a life, right enough and will probably have fewer regrets than most of us come the dying of the light . . .
Thu, 21/10/2010 - 15:31
#18
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Spot on Rocca.
Have you guys read 'Dreaming of Jupiter'?
A bittersweet re-run of his 1970's odyssey, this time on a R80GS. And didn't Ewan & Charley run into him during their travels in Mongolia? I think he's finally found true love; will his bride-to-be will tame his wanderlust?
So Dylan Thomas had a CG. That explains nearly everything!
Thu, 21/10/2010 - 15:58
#19
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Am planning to read Dreaming of Jupiter next silvercub.
Something's got to slow Ted down eventually - I think he's 79 now.
Sun, 31/10/2010 - 20:47
#20
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Easy question. Simple answer. The R100RS mono with about £3k spent on it will give you the perfect touring bike and you will still have a lot of change compared with a modern BM.
I did Stornoway to Machynlleth (home) in mid-wales on Saturday in every kind of weather and road. There has never been a fairing to come close in its ability to slice through wind and keep it off you. The boxer engine cruises at 90mph all day.
The only caveat is the lack of ABS - just keep your tyres in tiptop shape.
Sun, 31/10/2010 - 20:59
#21
Re: What's the best touring bike?
The only caveat is the lack of ABS - just keep your tyres in tiptop shape.
I tell you what, I really do miss ABS on bikes that don't have it these days, and that's despite (or because of) getting more experienced and doing plenty of miles every year. The modern equivalent of the old 100R is one of these, BMW R1200R which has it of course.
The engine (same as the 2010 GS and RT) feels a lot sharper and more eager than the old 2-valve boxers and economy's better too, but it still has the same basic feel. I'd be perfectly happy with one of these and in fact have been thinking about asking BMW for one as a long term bike for 2011.
Sun, 31/10/2010 - 21:15
#22
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Funny how I really don't miss the ABS when I jump from a BMW to an R1, GSX-R 1000 or KTM SMT. And I ride every day, in all types of weather.
The thing is, when I ride the BMWs, I always strive not to have the ABS kick in. I see it as a riding failure when it does (although it often kicks in too early, like on bumpy roads for example).
Never had the traction control intervene on the BMWs either.
Of course I might have to eat my words after that one time where it could have saved my bacon on a cold and damp morning in the city...
Wether it's the brakes or the gas, I always ride as if there was no ABS or TC. Maybe that's why I don't miss it when I switch bikes.
Makes me think about the MTS/SMT comparison in Bike this month. Funny how Simon H finds the KTM's response too precise/direct in the rain. I can't help but think that he has been spending too much time on the S1000RR, pinning it out of corners, experiencing what Kev describes so well in its review of the new Aprilia RSV4 "WHAT'ITS NAME AGAIN", and losing feel in the process...
Anyway, to me, a touring bike does not need ABS or TC to be perfect.
Mon, 01/11/2010 - 01:06
#23
Re: What's the best touring bike?
As shuggimac says, whichever I'm on at the time. And depending on what mood I'm in ...if I want dour teutonic milemunching with the odd epsiode of total failure*, its the 1200GS. If I want to attract sugardaddies to hear tall tales of national service**, I'll take my 2000 Triumph Adventurer. And if I want to bounce across the potholes, I'll take the Africa Twin. And I'll have an awesome time on any one of them.
* and the ability to pack spare shoes, the espresso machine, a camera and a hairdryer
** and run the risk of having to be rescued by the coastguard
Fri, 12/11/2010 - 09:12
#24
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Highwaylass,
Are you related in any way to Captain Scarlet?
Fri, 12/11/2010 - 09:47
#25
Re: What's the best touring bike?
This is an interesting topic, I feel this is a personal thing.
Everyone here refered to full on tourers or tallrounders but I know a guy who prefers his Hayabusa to his Goldwing to tour, as his likes the forward position better, he says the Busa don't transmits the bumps through the spine.
And then he starts to speak about the engine, he defines the Busa as the perfect engine for the lazy as he can stick it in 4th and never bother changing gear.
So I guess that all depends on taste, there are those who can do 3000m miles in a R1 and others you can't do more than 300 miles in a K1300GT without starting to ache.
From a pillion perspective I guess a R1200RT you'd be very good, as less power means better confort.
Fri, 12/11/2010 - 11:53
#26
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Well you're going to get a different answer from everybody on this one. Singing my usual tune about the VFR 800 VTEC, i find that an excellent touring bike for covering long distances. I look for a 200 mile tank range, ample luggage carrying capacity, comfort for rider and pillion and the ability to put the hammer down if needed or just trundle about as the need demands. Bike has to be reliable and offer good weather protection. My VFR ticks all those boxes.
There was a time when you would see loads of VFR's on continental touring duty, those days are sadly gone due to the tallrounders and other bikes offering a touring solution. Horses for courses methinks
Sun, 21/11/2010 - 08:45
#27
Re: What's the best touring bike?
I agree that this probably is all about personal preferences so here's mine. Its a bit of a long tale about the never ending quest to get that "perfect bike"!
My wife and I have done a lot of two-up touring over the years and have had a Ducati ST, an original Mutley, a VFR (VETEC) and also a few BMWs - K1200RS, R1150GS, R1200RT and R1200ST.
For reference, I'm 6'2" and the wrong side of 50 while my wife is 5'7" and will probably always be on the right side of 50...
We have done a lot of touring in Australia, where we mostly need to do a mix of highway and back road road riding - as well as two big trips around Europe in 2007 and 2010 - each about 20,000kms.
We loved the Ducati ST and regretted selling it for the VFR - mainly due to the big loss of torque - other than that they were both good touring bikes. Both the GS and the Multistrada were both great on back roads but much harder work when big miles on highways were needed. The Mutley was also a bit tight for space. The K1200RS was the opposite - too big and unwieldy in the tight stuff but great on the highways.
Thought we'd lash out and get the "ultimate" tourer to take on our first big European trip - and got the R1200RT. Funny thing was neither of us enjoyed it that much - it handled well but lacked the "fun" element. Also, we found we got blown around a lot on motorways and in windy conditions - so much so that it was sometimes disconcerting to both of us.
When we got back in late 1997 we sold the RT and managed to get to do about 1000kms on what I thought was going to be the perfect next bike - the new K1200GT - and absolutely hated it... well, the engine at least - it surged and seemed as if it was not at all properly fueled. Funny then that BMW got rid of it 12 months later and replaced it with the K1300GT.
Anyway, we have just returned from another big trip around Europe on what has turned into our all-time favorite touring bike - a BMW R1200ST. I'll admit, it's no looker (particularly from the front) but as far as ticking all the rest of the boxes, it has totally surprised us. I find I prefer the slightly leaned forward riding position to sitting bolt upright and I really wish BMW would consider making something similar to this again - its basically an RT with a lot of the bodywork (and weight) stripped off.
I had been looking longingly at the new Multistrada, and even thought about the new VFR or maybe the K1600GT, but the more we have ridden this bike the longer we think we'll keep it - which is most unlike me with bikes!!
Cheers
Robert in Oz
PS - Here is our bike "Barbie" somewhere in Austria - she is named after Barbra Streisand, a great singer in need of a nose job...
Sun, 21/11/2010 - 09:50
#28
Re: What's the best touring bike?
PS - Here is our bike "Barbie" somewhere in Austria - she is named after Barbra Streisand, a great singer in need of a nose job...
Brilliant - thanks for that chuckle on a Sunday morning! I can also agree on your liking of the Ducati ST. I have had my ST2 since new in 1997 and ok compared to the latest offerings it falls short on the spec sheet but I loved it thirteen years ago when I bought it and still do now.
Fri, 26/11/2010 - 01:14
#29
Re: What's the best touring bike?
Just wish the Ducati MTS 1200S was cheaper...I really think this bike is the closest you can get at having a bike that can do it all, unfortunately this also includes emptying your wallet.
Sat, 27/11/2010 - 17:28
#30
Re: What's the best touring bike?
I reckon a basic, non gadget version with the 1100 Monster air-cooled engine would be a big hit
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So what constitutes the best touring bike? Is it GoldWing style comfort and smoothness, BMW uber-distance machines or tall-rounder versatility? I like comfort and good wind and weather protection to get the distance out of the way, but I also want something that's fun when I arrive. Tall-rounders are doing it for me at the moment, although some of that's due to me being tall and them having the most spacious riding positions. But I like the height as well.