Triumph Trophy press test
Wed, 05/09/2012 - 10:58
I'll be riding the Trophy in Scotland on September 6 then the long ride back to Hinckley on the 7th... any particular questions you'd like me to ask Triumph staff, post them here!
Review is Sunday, September 9.
Wed, 05/09/2012 - 17:37
#2
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Kev
A couple of Qs please:
1. What sort of affect does the longer gearing (Sixth gear only I think) have on the bike's overatking ability and fuel economy compared to the Tiger Explorer?
2. How effective is the standard screen?
I know these aren't strictly for the staff but they are things I'd love to know about.
Also how long do they foresee the bike's model life being bearing in mind that Tourers tend to stay in production longer than other types of bike?
Wed, 05/09/2012 - 17:50
#3
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
This topic has forced me out of lurking on this great site....
As someone who rides 15k miles a year in all weathers in the UK I'm interested in understanding how resistant to corrosion the bike is, there is nothing so upsetting than watching your pride and joy turn brown before your very eyes once the gritters are out in the UK. No amount spraying can really halt this in my experience
So are all the external bolts and brackets stainless/aluminium or galvanised? How thick is the paint and does this vary by location on the bike.
On a related topic where painted panels touch anything are they well padded to 1)stop buzzing and vibration effects and 2) stop them taking the paint off each other? I've found that doing relatively high miles on bikes I've owned has quickly shown that thin felt pads are useless for this after a few thousand miles........
I'm really keen to test ride the Trophy but I want to know it won't look like a mid 80's Lancia in 12 months time..........
Cheers
Paul
Wed, 05/09/2012 - 18:21
#4
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Probably a stupid question, but since you will be talking to the Triumph staff: I would like to understand whether it is a deliberate choice from Triumph to build heavier bikes than the company they are openly "copying", BMW. The Explorer is about 30 kg heavier than the GS. And the Trophy about 40 kg heavier then the RT. Of course this may change somewhat when BMW goes liquid, but still the Triumphs will surely be the heavier. Do they think the extra weight is a necessary price to build more durable bikes? Or are the simply trailing the Germans technologically? [Not sure you should ask the latter question, though]
Wed, 05/09/2012 - 19:11
#5
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Kev, which part of Scotland have they mapped out for the test? Or is that top secret :) ?
Joe
Thu, 06/09/2012 - 12:34
#6
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Kev, one really annoying feature of touring on some bikes is the vibration buzzzz you get particularly on the throttle side of the bars which causes your hand to go numb. Can you check this out for me please except I'm talking about the 70/85 mph speed range which may(?) not be possible for you riding it 'up north' but is typical in mainland Europe. Thanks.
Thu, 06/09/2012 - 12:42
#7
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Hate to be the immature poster - but is it fun to thrash?
My old 1200RT was a great bike - but lacking in the engine dept. Looking forward to your report.
Fri, 07/09/2012 - 12:53
#8
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Oh and maximum loading weights for the luggage....... anything special on the tyre department, does it require GT spec rubber or will anything suffice....
I'll shout if I think of any more!
Fri, 07/09/2012 - 21:51
#9
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
If you dont ride the A708 moffat selkirk road Ash, then i am a monkeys uncle ; )
Thiss a geniue question - what on earth are they thinking in 2012 with that stupid antenna on the fairing?
1-4 for a copy good buddy?
Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:19
#10
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Thanks for the fine review Kevin - comprehensive and superbly informative, as ever. The Trophy sounds like it is going to play a major part in Triumph's impressive army, perhaps already in the vanguard.
Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:31
#11
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
If you dont ride the A708 moffat selkirk road Ash, then i am a monkeys uncle ; )
Thiss a geniue question - what on earth are they thinking in 2012 with that stupid antenna on the fairing?
1-4 for a copy good buddy?
Is that Uncle Gibbon?
We headed north from St Andrews into the Cairngorms, and there were some fab roads and scenery there.
I agree, the antenna was intrusive, especially when at some speeds with the screen in a high setting it would flap about wildly in resonance with the turbulence around the edge of the screen.
Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:36
#12
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Great review Kev, sounds like a candidate for a test ride. I raised an eyebrow at the antenna as well - the only upside I can see being that traffic ahead of you will part like the sea for Israel...
Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:43
#13
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Thanks for the fine review Kevin - comprehensive and superbly informative, as ever. The Trophy sounds like it is going to play a major part in Triumph's impressive army, perhaps already in the vanguard.
Thank you... In fact I think there's a lot more to say about that bike - there's a full feature in simply what the dash and other electronics can do! But it helped a lot that we were able to put so many miles on it - around 600 (1000km) in two days on all kinds of roads is exceptional on a first ride, although us Brits had the advantage of an option to ride the bikes back to Hinckley, which couldn't be done for the various foreign journalists as we were the last group to ride it.
Bear in mind the benchmark BMW is at the end of its life, we'll be getting a new liquid-cooled RT probably for 2013 and I'm sure that'll run much closer to the Triumph, but even so I think you're right, the Trophy is going to be a big player in Triumph's line up, in image terms at least as sales in that sector aren't especially great in the overall picture.
Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:22
#14
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Just had a read of the review Kev. Thanks for the comprehensive write-up which answers the questions I had, particularly the responsiveness in top gear what with it being longer geared than the Explorer.
It sounds as though the long gestation period has paid dividends for Triumph and I will definitely be taking a test ride as a result of having read your report.
How does it compare with the Explorer in other respects?
Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:18
#15
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Kev
Briiliant review, many thanks. Looks like a replacement for my K1300 GT (at last). Test ride booked. Tom
Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:40
#16
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Great review Mr. KA!
It is just that the Trophy looks to me like an RT copy - and I'm sorry for that! Could be just me... probably it is!
But being only 10-20 kg less than a K 16 GT, I would think it plays in another league than the RT??
I was amazed about the agility of the K 16 GT on fast roads, think is the new benchmark? How would compare the new Trophy with both RT and GT in terms of agility?
Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:05
#17
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
The Explorer I think is less economical and with its smaller tank has a much smaller range, but its ride quality feels more plush and relaxing. In other respects it's pretty much as you'd expect, eg better weather protection on the Trophy.
As a GT replacement the Trophy will do well, though the BMW's low rev torque is remarkably strong, I'm not sure if the Triumph will match that, but if it falls behind in pure performance terms (and it might not...) that doesn't matter too much as it feels fine when you're riding it and like the GT doesn't demand much gear changing.
I'll be putting up a small feature shortly comparing the looks of the Triumph with the BMW and some other rivals too, but I've checked side by side pics already and while the Trophy does have a similar look to its screen and the top part of the upper fairing, the rest is more generic tourer looking broadly similar to the Pan European and FJR1300 as much as the BMW. The BMW was the benchmark for the designers in terms of performance, aerodynamics, equipment and comfort as it's the market leader, but then that's common practice in much of bike design.
It's much more agile than the 1600GT and feels a lot lighter when you're manoeuvring it at walking pace, and more agile than the RT, in fact there's nothing in the class that comes close to the Triumph in this respect.
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 08:57
#18
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Kevin. A comprehensive review, thanks for that.
Two questions
1. How heavy is the clutch lever, the TEx is no lightweight for me but OKish.
2. One reality of the triple is that it revs fairly high at speed compared to the RT. Some riders see that as fussy when cruising. What is your take?
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 09:21
#19
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Kevin, you've compared it with the K1600GT, but how does it compare dynamically with the late lamented K1300GT? Arguably, apart from the radio and speakers, that was playing in this same space of high speed all weather luxury putting-the-GT-back-into Grand Touring bike?
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 10:22
#20
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
1. How heavy is the clutch lever, the TEx is no lightweight for me but OKish.
2. One reality of the triple is that it revs fairly high at speed compared to the RT. Some riders see that as fussy when cruising. What is your take?
1. A good point, I did notice that the clutch was a little on the heavy side and haven't mentioned it in the review - I'll add that. It's the same as the Explorer, there aren't any mechanical changes so you'll find the Trophy's is OKish too.
2. It feels higher revving than the RT still, inevitably given the extra cylinder, but that taller top gear does make it more relaxed than the Explorer. The revs now are just under 4,200rpm at 75mph/120kph - I didn't ever find myself hunting for a taller top ratio.
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 10:28
#21
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Kevin, you've compared it with the K1600GT, but how does it compare dynamically with the late lamented K1300GT? Arguably, apart from the radio and speakers, that was playing in this same space of high speed all weather luxury putting-the-GT-back-into Grand Touring bike?
I think I've also mentioned the 1300GT somewhere, you're right, that's a valid comparison, although sadly the GT is no longer available. The Trophy's comfort and weather protection are a lot better and the handling is sharper too, despite the extra weight. I much prefer the sound and feel of the Triumph's engine as well, although I don't think the Triumph has that epic low rev thrust of the GT and it probably won't stop in quite such a short distance. The GT's ride has a high frequency harshness on rough surfaces but feels more compliant over bigger bumps, where the Trophy can jar sometimes. The Trophy seems to be better built too, though that's always hard to judge. But Triumph's reliability has been better than BMW's in recent years, not that that's difficult.
The bottom line is, I think a GT owner would get on very well with the Trophy, which is a real GT itself.
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 10:42
#22
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Thank you, that's excellent news. I had a go on the K1600GT and thougt it was all very clever and impressive, but too unweildy to replace my 2007 K1200GT SE. I'm a triple lover, so the Trophy sounds ideal!
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 13:32
#23
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Given what is currently available now (no more K1300GT), IMO the Kawi GTR1400 is the Trophy's most direct competition - given their price, weight and features, but Kevin seems to have forgotten about it?
Even Yamaha's FJR1300 should be included but it doesn't have as many gizmos and is way overdue for a facelift - but is still extremely capable.
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 14:27
#24
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
You can't really compare the Kwacka/FJR and the new Trumpy.
The Kawasaki is very basic, and has no gizmos whatsoever. The FJR, whilst a nice bike (I owned one), is a dinosaur.
In our more and more over-regulated, nanny state society, a cruise control is almost a necessity on a GT bike these days. Moreover, a decent audio system can make the miles slip past.
I was impressed with the Explorer, but wanted to wait for the Trophy...sounds like I made the right choice.
Great review Kev.
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 17:02
#25
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
I'm surprised that you say it's much more agile than the RT, that bike is renowned for it's excellent agility.
I was about to pull the trigger on a new RT (test road the DOHC bike and thought it was a major improvement over the two GS's I have previously owned, lovely gearbox, plenty of grunt and liked to be revved, and handled very well).
You mention that the water cooled RT might be out in 2013.....what's your best guess as to when ??? I was thinking it would be a 2014 model.....maybe they will bring it forwards now !!
Did the Trophy appear bigger/bulkier from the riding position ?
Where you using the standard screen on the Trophy ?
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 16:38
#26
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Good test Kev.
Did you get chance to try the stock bike? Can't say i'm too interested in the E/Sus or audio (a triple has it's own audio as standard), a nice set of heated grips will do for me.
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 16:51
#27
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Apart from the attraction of the bike itself, Kevin, you touch, more than once, on BMW's reputation for reliability. I think that could play a significant part for those abandoning BMW tourers for the new Trophy. Once lost, BMW might have a tough job getting them back.
As an onlooker from the fringes, with no technical knowledge, I get the impression that BMW's marketing strategy is weighted heavily toward innovation and new product development. For all their protests that they are working hard to improve reliability stats, there seems to be an almost cultural acceptance that it's OK to use consumers as product testers. As long as they have dependable back-up, strong warranties and good dealers they believe that makes up for the failings and that customers will put up with it.
Other brands appear to value reliability much more. Again, I don't know sales figures and can only comment from general impressions as an outsider, but it strikes me that Triumph are content to be the tortoise in this race against BMW's hare. (Which animals you'd class Honda and the other makers as, I'm not sure.)
Triumph's patient and determined attitude, nicely mixed with pragmatism, also seems to be a culture and an ever-strengthening one. From what I've read about John Bloor he seems a perfect example of someone who would inspire a workforce and instil in them belief and confidence. The simple fact that human input seems highly valued must, in itself, motivate Triumph workers. When the staff get it, the customers naturally follow.
I understand that The Trophy was a long time in the making and I wonder what sort of reception such a plan would have got if pitched to the BMW board? I wonder too what percentage of the tourer market BMW would need to lose to make them finally push reliability to the top of their agenda?
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 16:57
#28
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
The Electronic suspension on the K12GT makes a real difference - takes the bike from sofa plush and wallowy to almost sports-bike taught at the touch of a button. Like cruise control, it's not a feature I ever thought I'd value highly on a motorcycle, but having had it, it has become something of a deal breaker for me on long distance machinery...
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 17:10
#29
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
That's the thing about the Kawasaki, it looked like a perfect platform for a bike in this class, in America it is marketed as a like for like replacement for a bike that was - of its time - IN this class. And Kawasaki already sell a bare bones 1400cc hyper-sports tourer in the shape of the ZZR. And yet when the GTR was launched, it didn't even have heated grips! Err... pardon? What? It had a sexy remote ignition key, an electric screen as standard that didn't provide enough weather protection even on 'high', a top end price tag, and... it was made of fail for me. No heated grips on a mega money GT bike = not aimed at the real world. Like an Aston Martin with a wipe clean plastic interior, no radio and an old school heater-demister. How much would a few toys have added to the cost versus the utility of the bike? Heated grips, heated seat, cruise control, an iPod dock and on board bluetooth... hell, these days as long as you don't want fairing mounted speakers, an onboard radio with iPod dock, bluetooth and a jack socket to plug in a pair of earbuds should be small enough to tuck into the bottom corner of one of the fairing pockets!
Mon, 10/09/2012 - 19:38
#30
Re: Triumph Trophy press test
Given what is currently available now (no more K1300GT), IMO the Kawi GTR1400 is the Trophy's most direct competition - given their price, weight and features, but Kevin seems to have forgotten about it?
If I have it's because I think it's forgettable... I don't rate the 1400GTR, it has a serious low rev torque deficit, it doesn't steer well, the range is poor and the equipment levels aren't up to current standards. There's a full review here where I go through the issues:
http://www.ashonbikes.com/content/kawasaki-1400gtr-2010
I refer to the 1200RT mostly because that's the benchmark in the class, for many buyers as well as Triumph's engineers.
I hope everyone who's booked a test ride reports back here by the way, I'm really looking forward to how your experiences compare with mine... hopefully not too different!
Donate to the Kevin Ash Fund
Donate directly to the Kevin Ash Fund setup by the Telegraph to help with the education of his three daughters.
The Telegraph can only accept cheques and Postal Orders in Sterling. If you'd like to make a donation but you can't send a cheque or Postal Order then you might consider using PayPal, which will accept other methods of payment. A small percentage (about 3.4%) will be retained by PayPal for the service.
Kevin's family have been touched by the generosity and messages of support from people using the website and would like to express their gratitude to those who have contributed in any way.
The donations keep coming in, thank you so much, and the family especially like it when you leave a message.
Ads
NEWS...
* TRIUMPH TIGER SPORT
The Tiger gets a single-sided swingarm and another 10bhp!...(more)
* HONDA MSX125
Honda announces a spiritual successor to the iconic Monkey Bike!...(more)
* APRILIA CAPONORD
At last Aprilia goes for the GS too......(more)
* GUZZI CALIFORNIA 1400
Italy's biggest ever V-twin for the all-new Guzzi...(more)
* VESPA 946 FIRST PIC
Sleek new Vespa 125 based on last year's concept bike...(more)
I'll be riding the Trophy in Scotland on September 6 then the long ride back to Hinckley on the 7th... any particular questions you'd like me to ask Triumph staff, post them here!
Review is Sunday, September 9.