Scooter Choices
Thu, 26/05/2011 - 13:28
HI,
After 4 years and 17,000 miles i am thinking of trading in my Yamaha ybr 125 for a scooter. Although my 39 years riding has all been on motorcycles from 50-750cc i have a strange compulsion to try a twist and go.
The Honda SH 125/PS125, Yamaha Cygnus, and Sym HD200i evo
are on my initial list of possibles. Honda and Yamaha are
proven reliable products but the Sym is more of a value choice. Should i consider anything Italian ie Aprillia or
Gilera? I must have excellent reliability as it is my daily commuter for work.Performance wise anything that will match my YBR will suffice.
YBR STATS = Top speed 65m.p.h. Criusing speed 50-55m.p.h.
Fuel consumption 128 m.p.g. last time i checked it.
I dont mind the fuel consumption dropping to about 85 m.p.g. as i know my YBR is exceptionally economical!
Thu, 26/05/2011 - 19:23
#2
Re: Scooter Choices
Anything except a V***a or a L*******a.
Well what did you expect with my user name :) :)
Thu, 26/05/2011 - 19:30
#3
Re: Scooter Choices
Interesting stuff, Rocca.
But why is it necessary to go to three decimal places?
Thu, 26/05/2011 - 20:39
#4
Re: Scooter Choices
But why is it necessary to go to three decimal places?
It's a fair point (groan). I suppose that .932 of a Piaggio Beverly would be a neatly chamfered-down Beverl. .396 of an Xciting equates to a swift(?) Xcit, and .559 of a Downtown is a frankly depressing/ distressing Kymco Down.
Actually, on the subject of scooter names, the truth is somewhat stranger than this fractional fiction. I commend the Sym website to the scrutiny of the House: http://www.sym.com.tw/eng/ You can start off with a Fiddle, progress to a Joyride and climax with a Joymax (the Joymax EVO being presumably reserved for birthdays and other special occasions). They even have a model called Allo for those who prefer to commute whilst sporting a Breton-striped shirt and matching ridiculous French accent.
This is a theme on which I could bang on for a long time. But don't worry, I won't. Except to say that I'm thinking of subjecting the apostrophe in "Yamaha BW's 125" to an in-depth analysis in the hope of discovering what it could possibly betoken (http://www.yamaha-motor.co.uk/uk/products/scooters/125cc/bw125.aspx).
Fri, 27/05/2011 - 16:13
#5
Re: Scooter Choices
Perhaps our Kevin will run a comparison between the Yamaha BW's and the Syn, err, Sym BJ's.
Or would that perhaps be akin to comparing tomato's with potato's?
Fri, 27/05/2011 - 16:27
#6
Re: Scooter Choices
Hello commuterfodder, well for reliability it's still the case that the Japanese are best, and by a fair margin in the scooter markets. The Italians aren't too bad these days, but you won't find much difference between Aprilia, Piaggio, Vespa and Gilera as they're all Piaggio Group companies built to similar standards, although the build quality of Vespa is a step above the others.
You haven't mentioned Kymco, but these are well worth considering as they offer decent quality with value pricing, similar to Sym (who aren't bad either). Sym and Kymco are the only non Italian or Japanese ones you should be considering.
I suspect you'll be disappointed with the fuel economy of most of them. Scooters' automatic transmissions are not efficient and they're generally significantly worse than equivalent clutch and gearbox motorcycles. Even 125cc scooters will only just be nudging the 85mpg you mention, although this does of course depend on how you ride. In fact 128mpg from your Yamaha is very good so clearly you're not riding it flat out everywhere and if you ride a 125cc scooter the same way I image most will just about be doing 85mpg.
The Honda SH125 is very good, its larger wheels lend it much better stability and ride quality than the small wheeled rivals, and it's one of the more economical ones too. You get Honda reliability as well, which is usually the benchmark. As you can see from rocca's figures the SH is Italy's best selling scooter, and they do know their scooters there so it's for good reason - I'd be very tempted by this out of all the ones that are being mentioned.
Fri, 27/05/2011 - 17:22
#7
Re: Scooter Choices
Perhaps our Kevin will run a comparison between the Yamaha BW's and the Syn, err, Sym BJ's.
Or would that perhaps be akin to comparing tomato's with potato's?
Or would that perhaps be akin to comparing tomato's with potato's?
Seems like we had crossed posts there (which sounds like an ancient duelling problem).
Sadly no scooter comparison tests for a long time yet, much as I'd love to... Time, resources, the usual.
Fri, 27/05/2011 - 17:49
#8
Re: Scooter Choices
Tongue firmly in cheek there, Kevin.
Rocca & I were having an apostrophe moment, combined with low-grade innuendo. Apologies for besmirching your otherwise lily white (another of your pillions?) site.
Fri, 27/05/2011 - 19:13
#9
Re: Scooter Choices
Haha, that was all understood Mr S Cub, I tend to do the more straight answers for those who aren't as familiar with your tussles with apostrophes and other aspects of the language. I do of course mean apostrophe's, my apologie's.
I did incidentally once see that hilly wet land to the west described as Wale's, one of my favourite examples.
Fri, 27/05/2011 - 19:39
#10
Re: Scooter Choices
Not too wet I hope Kev I'm off up therefor a few on the VFR tomorrow
Fri, 27/05/2011 - 22:20
#11
Re: Scooter Choices
Luckily I'm not possessive over Kevin's pillion. Lily's just one of a bunch..
Fri, 27/05/2011 - 23:11
#12
Re: Scooter Choices
Not too wet I hope Kev I'm off up therefor a few on the VFR tomorrow
I'd take your wet weather gear anyway...
Fri, 27/05/2011 - 23:12
#13
Re: Scooter Choices
Luckily I'm not possessive over Kevin's pillion. Lily's just one of a bunch..
Don't forget Rose... had to raise the suspension for her.
Sat, 28/05/2011 - 00:07
#14
Re: Scooter Choices
How did you find sweet William took to pillion? I always had him marked as a bit of a pansy..
Tue, 31/05/2011 - 13:03
#15
Re: Scooter Choices
Kevin turns off the intercom when Hellebore's on the back.
apriliagirl, I'm sure you're the pick of the bunch. Well, when that gun's pointing at my head, anyway.....
Tue, 31/05/2011 - 13:50
#16
Re: Scooter Choices
Silvercub.. Never underestimate flower power..
Tue, 31/05/2011 - 22:30
#17
Re: Scooter Choices
Fistly i would like to thank rocca for his very accurate Italian sales chart. Secondly i would like to thank Kev for taking the trouble to read the scooter blog after such a long period of inactivity. With my imaginary beer token i would have ordered a pint of "cerberus" stout from the Fox Brewery in Norfolk (lovely stuff)I seem to have created a new impetus to the sooter blog even if it did deviate somewhat from the original thread!After visiting a Honda dealer i ruled out the PCX as being to low and i did not like the central frame member either. Having my thighs and feet parralel to the ground is essential as is the ability to knock my knees together if i get a bend horribly wrong!Also i do not want a scooter with lots of bodywork and therefore weight as 13 B.H.P. is not a lot of power to play with.
Wed, 01/06/2011 - 09:10
#18
Re: Scooter Choices
Before the more pedantic among you go into a feeding frenzy i would like to own up to the spelling errors contained in my last post.I do have excuses but as none of them are really valid i had better own up to plain old incompetence!
Wed, 01/06/2011 - 10:03
#19
Re: Scooter Choices
"Pedantic" is putting it kindly commuterfodder, so thanks for your restraint on that. Thanks also for mentioning "the ability to knock my knees together if I get a bend horribly wrong". If only bike test reports were similarly insightful on the question of what really matters to owners. You should stick around, you'll fit in nicely here.
Anyway, it sounds like the PCX has received the double thumbs down so (and as Kevin has already devined) perhaps the SH would best suit. Will the budget stretch to a SH300? That one's a hoot to ride, though mpg isn't quite at 125 levels.
Mr Ash reported on the 300 in a newspaper:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/scooters/2745234/Best-of-both-worlds...
Wed, 01/06/2011 - 17:13
#20
Re: Scooter Choices
Silvercub.. Never underestimate flower power..
See what happens when women join in? We end up going off topic and talking about flowers. (ducks...)
Fri, 03/06/2011 - 12:43
#21
Re: Scooter Choices
Also i do not want a scooter with lots of bodywork and therefore weight as 13 B.H.P. is not a lot of power to play with.
Looks like Honda's next big thing might come closer to the fuel economy you're used to. Can you wait 'til autumn?
https://www.honda.co.uk/motorcycles/yourhonda/news/Honda-Announces-Its-N...
N.B. It has the knocking knee feature.
Sun, 05/06/2011 - 20:43
#22
Re: Scooter Choices
Many thanks silvercub for pointing out all of my options.
After reading Kevs reports on both the SH 125 and the SH 300 though i think i will probably end up going with a 125.
With regard to the economy i may have mislead you a bit by quoting 128 m.p.g. as this figure is not actually my goal but just what my current bike achieves.
Believe it or not the high and low for my YBR 125 are 111 m.p.g. and 151 m.p.g.
the later whilst running in an not exceeding 6000 r.p.m.
My previous bike was a Honda CB500S and that very rarely dipped under 60 m.p.g.
Th SH 300 would be nearer to the CB 500 level of performance and as my brain has now been re- calibrated to 10 b.h.p. levels of speed i think the 125 will be enough.I have actually enjoyed riding a 125 as most people dismiss them as pure learner bikes, but last year i went to Scarborough Cock of the North races and back a distance of 460 miles from where i live.To me riding a bike or a scooter is about freedom and adventure and not size or speed.
Mon, 06/06/2011 - 19:51
#23
Re: Scooter Choices
I'd been keeping an eye out for new scooters but I hadn't seen the new Honda Vision before and that's an unforgivable oversight considering how good it looks.
Ash on Bikes: where the pun never stops.
(Cited as the best site for bike sights, 2011 Optometry Times industry awards. In tests, 8 out of 10 Thundercats preferred it.)
But - hold on to your photons for just 299792458 m/s.
Honda Foresight + Honda Vision = see what they did there?
If the humble Cub gets reanimated will they call it the Déjà Vu?
Tue, 07/06/2011 - 12:36
#24
Re: Scooter Choices
I like your thinking rocca but as the old saying goes "There is nothing new under the sun" Man has been an inventor since day one and so most of todays offerings are only modified and re-branded versions of existing designs.
The music and fashion industries are also prolific at recycling old ideas.
Thu, 09/06/2011 - 11:25
#25
Re: Scooter Choices
I have been riding, motorbikes and scooters for over 40 years, switching from a scooter to a motorbike when I missed the power and handling and switching back to a scooter when I missed the storage, weather protection and not having to dress up quite so much.
Until recently my scooters have been a Gilera Runner SP180, Piaggio X9 500 and a Piaggio MP3 400 - yes that one with 3 wheels.
The MP3 was great fun and I commuted 100 miles a day, rain or shine into the City, filtering with the best of them.
BUT BUT BUT I got fed up with it's reliability and the running costs of this innovative Italian machine.
I bought a Honda SH300 and haven't looked back - nippy off the mark, 80mph, 75 to 80 mpg, filtering a doddle, excellent handling (suspension could do with being less bumpy) - low servicing costs and that Honda Reliability which I remember so well from my Hornet and previous Hondas.
I am sure if you end up going for the SH125 you will be pleased and there is a lot to be said for going with a well developed model by the lates (PCX ?).
Thu, 09/06/2011 - 12:56
#26
Re: Scooter Choices
Thanks for your observations REDBANKUK hands on experience is always the most valuable when reporting on any particular model of machine.
Could you or anyone else please explain to me how the three stage Honda v-matic system actually works in practice, as i have never actually operated such a system. Going up the gears would obviously depend on throttle opening but what happens when you close the throttle? Does the v-matic start changing down immediately or does it coast in its current gear until the throttle is re- opened?
Thu, 09/06/2011 - 22:35
#27
Re: Scooter Choices
Sorry, can't help you with exactly how V-MATIC works.
One doesn't tend to talk about scooter automatic transmissions in terms of "changing gears" - I think about it (if at all) in terms of a belt sliding up and down a pulley and imagine it all looks like the old fashioned DIABLO toy.
In practice it is very smooth and controllable at low speeds - no snatching and it really does feel seamless when pulling away and when accelerating harder.
It's not my style to whack the throttle open, I always like to pick up speed gradually so I don't know if it behaves differently.
I meant to add to my post that I would have bought a SYM GTS 300i (feet forwardf) model if there had been a dealer fairly near me but last year SYM hadn't got their act together. This year (2011) they have a new importer and distribution network.
People who have SYMs say they are dead reliable as well.
Thu, 10/05/2012 - 17:47
#28
Re: Scooter Choices
I would go with either of the two brands that you mention in your post. They are the most reliable.
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Firstly, collect an imaginary beer token (redeemable at the Ashonbikes virtual club bar) for being the first person to post anything in this section for over a year.
I don't know about Sym, but my take on Italian vs. "Japanese" scooters is that the latter still edge it on quality (although the Vespas are very nicely done too). Compare some machines with a few miles on and see what you think. I say "Japanese" because most of them are actually made in Europe, albeit with an ingredient "x" of some sort that seems to result in a more convincing product. Italian market sales figures make for instructive reading, not least because of the volume of sales - which is staggering compared to the UK market:
Classifica Top 100 Gen-Dic 2010 - Scooter
001 HONDA ITALIA SH 300 Scooter 13.957
002 HONDA ITALIA SH 150 Scooter 10.661
003 HONDA ITALIA SH 125 Scooter 10.088
004 PIAGGIO BEVERLY 300 TOURER Scooter 9.932
005 YAMAHA XMAX 250 Scooter 9.692
006 YAMAHA TMAX 500 Scooter 8.663
007 PIAGGIO LIBERTY 125 RST Scooter 7.361
008 PIAGGIO VESPA GTS 300 SUPER Scooter 7.047
009 KYMCO AGILITY 125 R16 Scooter 6.534
010 PIAGGIO BEVERLY 300 Scooter 6.239
011 KYMCO DOWNTOWN 300 Scooter 5.599
012 PIAGGIO VESPA LX 125 Scooter 5.065
013 YAMAHA X-CITY 250 Scooter 4.931
014 HONDA SW-T 400 Scooter 4.199
015 KYMCO AGILITY 150 R16 Scooter 3.684
016 KYMCO XCITING R 300 I Scooter 3.396
017 YAMAHA MAJESTY 400 Scooter 3.374
018 PIAGGIO LIBERTY 150 RST Scooter 3.050
019 SUZUKI AN 400 BURGMAN Scooter 2.756
020 LML NV 150 Scooter 2.646
With the focus on economy, and if you're happy with a 125, I'd suggest taking a look at the Honda PCX. It's not on the list above (it only came out mid-way through last year) but it's a pretty sharp-looking thing with better underseat storage than a SH125 (enough to take a full face helmet and gear). It's fitted with an engine idle stop control and though this is probably more of a gimmick that a real contributor to economy it returns 90+ mpg according to one of our forum members. I also like the Yamaha XMAX, which has a cavernous "boot" and is available in 125 and 250cc flavours. The XMAX 125 will have a ridiculously inflated list price relative to the Honda and every other competitor, but if you find a dealer with one to shift (or are shopping around the London area) then you'd probably end up paying a good deal less if you wanted one. Both are going to cruise, and chase away the commutin' blues, at your preferred speed.