Retro-fit ABS?
Sat, 06/02/2010 - 20:26
I keep reading about the safety benefits of ABS and would like to know whether the crucial gizmos could be lifted from an ABS-kitted production bike and fitted to my 2004 Fazer 1000? I appreciate that wheel speed sensors would be required, but apart from that is it just down to an ECU and clever hydraulics?
Sun, 07/02/2010 - 18:15
#2
The carbed Fazer 1000 was never offered with
The carbed Fazer 1000 was never offered with ABS, more's the pity. I understand your reasoning, but surely any resonance problems could only become safety issues if the system was frequently activated - which one would hope would not be the case! Would Honda'a C-ABS system be excluded from your argument, on the basis that it doesn't (I think) cause pulsation of the brakes?
Sun, 07/02/2010 - 20:52
#3
No, I don't mean a resonance that would cause
No, I don't mean a resonance that would cause a longer term failure, the problem is that if the pulsing of the ABS happens to match the natural frequency of the front suspension for example, the forks would start to jump and down as the brakes were applied and released until the front of the bike was bouncing up and down violently and possible the wheel even leaving the road surface. There's a similar problematic resonant frequency of the forks flexing backwards and forwards... if the brakes happened to hit that, while it could conceivably get them vibrating hard enough to bend them, it would certainly produce some pretty violent shaking and juddering. If this happened at best you'd massively extend your braking distance. The point is, it could happen any time you brake hard enough for the ABS to activate, it's not dependent on how often you activate the system, it could happen the very first time.
These resonant frequencies are due to so many variables they can't even be calculated, which is why ABS has to be calibrated on bikes off the production line rather than what you'd think were near-identical final prototypes.
C-ABS does pulse the brakes, it just does it more smoothly than less sophisticated systems, I believe because it's at a higher frequency, but it also feels smoother because braking forces are distributed electronically front and rear, independent of what the rider is doing. But it could still cause the same kinds of problems.
Usually I'm one to dismiss lots of safety concerns as over-reacting and would say go for it to most ideas like this, but I've had discussions with bike designers about this after asking why ABS bikes generally appear a few months after the non-ABS models, and I do think there's a real danger in this case.
Sun, 07/02/2010 - 21:07
#4
I've got it now, thanks for elaborating. That
I've got it now, thanks for elaborating. That puts the kybosh on that idea then! Will look out for your article in MCN (commission cheque to my local orthopaedic hospital please....).
Wed, 10/02/2010 - 12:49
#5
I was wondering if ABS could be fitted to the
I was wondering if ABS could be fitted to the UK Suzuki B King, the Americans get it with ABS, I have my B King up for sale, with the intention of bringing in a US one with ABS later this year, it would save me a lot of bother, if I could get ABS fitted to the B King I have, or would it work out cheaper to bring in a new B King with it on.
Regards Keith
Wed, 10/02/2010 - 19:45
#6
If the suspension settings are the same (and
If the suspension settings are the same (and they might be different simply because it's a US spec bike) then you could fit the ABS, though don't forget you'll need the warning light in the dash, which might mean new clocks. Quite possibly the wiring loom will have the correct additional wires already in place, but I don't know. Chances are there's a separate ABS computer, but it might even be that the ABS function is dealt with by the same black box which does the engine management and just needs an extra connector to be plugged in for that to work. I'm only guessing, but this kind of thing is often the case with cars, it makes fitting options and accessories much cheaper.
It won't be easy finding out all you need to know and the cost of the components could well make it unviable anyway. I can't really help any more than that I'm afraid...
Wed, 10/02/2010 - 20:57
#7
I rang my Suzuki dealer, and he said he did
I rang my Suzuki dealer, and he said he did not know, he said the Suzuki Bandit had special cutouts on the wheels to
allow for the ABS, but if it can be done it would be expensive, so I think I will stick to my original plan, and to sell mine,and bring a ABS B King in from the States.
Regards Keith
Thu, 11/02/2010 - 10:56
#8
Keith - I don't know about this specifically
Keith - I don't know about this specifically but in my experience in the past of even asking manufacturers directly for this sort of information draws a blank. They are so afraid to offer any advice about modifications that are not officially done by themselves, even with their own components from another similar vehicle due to the liability issue of being sued if something goes wrong, even if it is through negligence in fitting or whatever. I came accross this quite a number of years ago when I asked Ford if I could fit the door from one of their other models on to my pick up truck that was based on a standard road car. The guy on the phone said that they simply could not answer me for the reason above.
Thu, 11/02/2010 - 14:15
#9
Thanks Shuggiemac for that info, its a mad
Thanks Shuggiemac for that info, its a mad world where everybody is afraid of being sued for one reason or another, what with that and health and safety, and everybody having to be PC, its driving me nuts.
I will just sell my bike, and bring one in.
Regards Keith
Sun, 21/02/2010 - 19:24
#10
MCN last Wednesday Mr Wobbly!
MCN last Wednesday Mr Wobbly!
Sun, 21/02/2010 - 21:23
#11
Thanks Kev, I read it in Smiths with my chest
Thanks Kev, I read it in Smiths with my chest swollen with pride!
You can only retro-fit ABS onto a bike if it comes from an identical model that had it as a factory fitment, ie to be fitted to an 04 Fazer 1000 the system must come from a Fazer 1000 which had it as an option from the showroom. Was it even an option on the 04 Fazer 1000? I can't remember...
The reason is that ABS has to be set up very carefully to match the suspension and general behaviour of a bike - this is why ABS options only become available in showrooms several months after the non-ABS versions, as the engineers have spent this time setting up the electronics. They can't even do it on prototypes as small variations can make a difference, they have to use models off the production lines, so the ABS work can only start after the bike goes into production.
The reason is that the ABS system pulses cannot be allowed to occur at the same frequency as any resonant frequencies of the forks, frame or braking system, or you would get at least a likely loss of control or possibly a catastrophic failure such as forks breaking.
Even if you found an 05 ABS model you must check there are no small suspension or damping changes over your model, as these will have an influence. As for lifting the ABS from a different bike altogether, no way... if you were lucky it simply wouldn't work very well, but there's a good chance it would be outright dangerous.
But thanks for asking, I think this could make a subject for the Tech Watch column I write in MCN!