Puncture Sealants
Sat, 01/10/2011 - 18:23
After returning to biking after 30+ years and having been used to carrying tyre levers and a repair outfit to fix punctures at the roadside, I find that tyres are now tubeless. My local bike repair shop fitted two new tyres to my machine and was quite happy to instal "Goop" puncture sealant in the rear tyre but refused point blank to instal it in the front tyre. They said that it caused balance and steering problems in the front wheel. None of the manufacturers of these type of substances mentions this in their advertising. What is the real world take on this?
Sun, 02/10/2011 - 23:20
#2
Re: Puncture Sealants
Dazz, I take my hat off to you sir. I too remember the days of tubed tyres, levers etc but not with nostalgia. I hated using the damn things so much I never carried them with me and took the chance of managing to get out of a mess if I got a flat whilst out on the road. I can vividly picture myself sitting on the hall floor of my first flat, with tyre levers precariously held in various locations, against spokes, brake discs around the rim of my Bonneville wheel. All of them were obviously under quite a load but in not perfect balance as one all of a sudden let go and went sailing over the top of my head, one other slammed into the front door and a third sailed past my ear. The last remaining lever got picked up off the carpet, thrown onto the floor in a fit of temper, bounced straight back up and clocked me square in the side of the jaw. After that I would never consider changing a tyre at the side of the road. If it nearly concussed me inside the house then I would have no chance in the middle of Glen Coe on a Friday night.
As for the sealant, well I have never tried it as I have only ever heard negative reports back on its use, as outlined by Poucher. I suppose it is a sign of age and the times that whilst I do have one of the plug and gas cartridge kits, I usually forget to take it and perhaps foolishly rely on a road side assistance service.
Mon, 03/10/2011 - 08:55
#3
Re: Puncture Sealants
I served my apprenticeship the hard way with tubed tyres, I used to ride Enduro's and Trail bikes and we were always getting punctures in the middle of no-where!
I used to carry a spare 21" front tube and tyre levers, while my mate strapped a car foot pump to the rack on his trail bike.
We only carried a spare front tube as you could also use this for the rear wheel at a push, it would just squash up inside the rear tyre but still inflate ok.
We used to have great fun in the middle of Dalby forest wrestling about on the floor in the mud changing tubes!
Getting the tyre back in again around the rim locks ( we only used 14 psi off-road )was the hardest part, I only ever used 6" Motion-Pro tyre levers, but after a while you kind of get the knack for it and get slicker, keeping the bead of the tyre down into the well of the wheel with your knees whilst your working on getting the opposite side bead over the rim is the main key point to master with tyre changing.
After that hassle, tubeless road tyres seem a doddle!
Mon, 03/10/2011 - 09:06
#4
Re: Puncture Sealants
I'v used the foam sealant and it works in that it seals the tyre, allows air pressure to be re-established and 150 miles, or more?, at lower speed with no problem.
Downside is the tyre is not repairable and thus scrap
Mon, 03/10/2011 - 09:27
#5
Re: Puncture Sealants
I'm not a fan of the pre-emptive sealants, the ones Dazz mentions which you put in a tyre in case you get a puncture later. They do cause imbalance problems and add a lot of unsprung weight, and there's also the possibility that a puncture is sealed immediately so the damage is not noticed, then you continue to use the bike normally with only sealant fixing something which should be repaired properly. This could lead to a more serious failure later on.
I once had a puncture in my old CB750KZ rear tyre and used TyreWeld or similar, squirting it in through the valve as per instructions. It seemed to inflate the tyre okay and hold the air again, so I rode off, then at some traffic lights a car behind me started hooting. I looked around and my back tyre was busy squirting sticky white gunge over the bonnet of the car! Whoops, sorry mate...
The tyre plug kits do seem to work very well, though I imagine you'd struggle to get enough pressure from those little canisters into a really big rear tyre like a Diavel or Victory's. Well, if it's enough to keep the rim off the road you can get rolling very slowly again I guess.
My Citroen (that's a car...) has no spare tyre now, just an electric pump and sealant foam, and that's pretty common these days so the technology must be better than it used to be. Oh yeah, and the only modern motorcycle I know of these days which comes with a puncture repair kit will surprise a few people, it's the good ol' Multistrada! BMWs used to have them but not any more, unless they're removed from press bikes because we'd only nick them anyway.
Wed, 05/10/2011 - 07:00
#6
Re: Puncture Sealants
No Kev you're quite right. BMW don't issue them out anymore though the dealers will sell you one from their accessories counter...
I've steered away from the sealants and carry a cannister and plug kit which I bought from a BMW delaer a few years ago. Thankfully I've never had cause to use it. Interestingly the rear Bridgestone 021 on my ST managed to pick up a large screw a week or two back. When I took it to the local tyre place they refused to fix it stating that they couldn't repair Bridgestone tyres. I've no idea why this is the case though.
Wed, 05/10/2011 - 11:17
#7
Re: Puncture Sealants
This is an interesting one.
The tyre guy I regularly use won't repair (plug) any motorcycle tyres, with the exception of Michelin.
Apparently it's to do with the fact that the tyre carcass is strenghtened by one continuous steel wire, which could be weakened if deflected or broken by e.g. a nail, screw etc.
Michelin tyres have a series of bands, so the integrity of the carcass is not compromised in this way.
Kevin's technical article on the Metzeler Sportec refers to steel 'chords', so this may be repairable too? Once again the can of worms is opened........
Wed, 05/10/2011 - 12:23
#8
Re: Puncture Sealants
This is an interesting one.
It is indeed! I feel the beginnings of a feature stirring somewhere inside here. I shall fire some questions at technical people and see what they have to say - I can see what these guys mean, that many modern tyres use a single coil of wire around the circumference of the carcass, and if it's broken then the strength of the whole carcass could be compromised, where a series of parallel steel belts will isolate the damage. But it still seems unlikely to be a real problem as a spiral belt is bonded to the carcass all the way around.
I'll report back...
Fri, 28/10/2011 - 11:04
#9
Re: Puncture Sealants
I shall fire some questions at technical people and see what they have to say
I know you're a busy bee, buzzing off hither & thither on assorted exotica.
Any development on this?
I'm about to fork out on a new set of tyres, so it's of added interest now!
Fri, 28/10/2011 - 11:18
#10
Re: Puncture Sealants
Yes, there has been some in fact, but I've not had a full answer yet so I need to clarify some more. Bridgestone has already said that it doesn't recommend repairing Z rated tyres at all anyway, but that a lot of tyres (not just their own) have spiral wound belts and damage to them could compromise the tyre's strength. But I need more info really, and to hear what the other companies say. Not sure I'll get anything before your tyre desire has to be fulfilled though.
Fri, 28/10/2011 - 11:33
#11
Re: Puncture Sealants
No worries, think I'll go down the RP3 route anyway.
But will be interesting to hear how the other companies respond.
Fri, 28/10/2011 - 21:54
#12
Re: Puncture Sealants
The best repair kit I've ever used is a mobile phone. It costs me £20 a year for the phone and about £35 a year for the man to come and pick the bike up and take it somewhere useful.
This system can also be used for any other form of breakdown and on any other vehicle I'm using so is very versatile, not just for punctures.
It works particulaly well when the puncture is near a pub and it's raining.
Sat, 29/10/2011 - 06:38
#13
Re: Puncture Sealants
I have heard that Ultra-seal is the way forward but as I have tubed tyres I was wondering if it would still work. Their website says it will but no guarantee which leaves more questions than answers, I have a couple of friends that swear by it in their Harleys but then they probably wouldn't notice any balance issues. Any one else had any experience of using this?
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Dazz,
Never been keen on sealants inside of tyres, they add a lot of weight in the wrong place making the bike less flickable at high speeds, are not always successful at sealing a puncture, and not many tire repair shops are keen on fixing a puncture after its had this stuff in it.
I once had a Ducati 851 with some in the front tyre, added by its last owner ( as I discovered later! ) at about 85 mph it vibrated so bad the mirrors dropped down, after 3 attempts at balancing it in a tyre dealers they finally took the tyre off and discovered about a pint of the stuff in the front wheel! It was basically catching up on itself at high speeds and putting the wheel seriously out of balance!
I use Rema tip top plugs and CO2 cartridges which I've found to be really good, I had a puncture on the road earlier this year and used the kit I carry on the bike to get me away again.
When I took the tyre off to repair it permenantly with a mushroom head plug from the inside of the tyre, I got a good look at how the Rema had done it job from the inside of the tyre, it looked really good, had swelled out a lot inside the tyre and it made me feel confident that it was a safe temporary repair and would not have been blown out of the tyre at all.
I would not use these liquid tyre sealers, Google ""Rema tip top or another system called "Stop and Go"
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/REMA-TIP-TOP-MOTORCYCLE-TUBELESS-TYRE-REPAIR-KIT-/160659486194?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item25680d35f2
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/STOP-n-GO-POCKET-TYRE-PLUGGER-KIT-/390334653751?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item5ae1c22537
These things are far more effective than tyre slime and give a better result.
Hope this helps, Poucher