KTM 1290 Adventure

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Captain Scarlet
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Looks like the Adventure and SMT collided, then got fitted with the RC8R engine! I think the sub-frame will get more leveled out on the actual machine, but otherwise looks like another corker.

Pic (looks ripped from Visor Down): http://www.motofan.fr/motards/photos/nouveautes/photo-ktm-adventure-1290...

Captain Scarlet
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

P.s. Not available until '2014' :-(

vroum_ninou
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

Wow... The new Adventure not available before 2014?? When would the new SMT be available then?? :-(
Well, I'm pretty happy with the current one, but still...

roundincircles
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

Now that's more like it, a proper bike, designed with the usual KTM panache.

I'm not a fan of the RC8 engine but would buy this if it had smoother mid range grunt........there it's not the engine it's KTM fuelling. They need to control induction and low speed fuelling IMO, and by the way I'm never wrong according to my wife!

Oh the new 690 Duke could have a Big Brother.

roundincircles
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

See how KTM use colour to add style, interest and at a low cost!

Image courtesy of Visor Down

KTM.JPG
Captain Scarlet
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

I could be wrong, it might just be the Adventure. But, the way its styled, says to me at least, that it might well supersede 'both' the Adventure and SMT?

They are certainly going for that more accessible height and look that the Tiger 800 XC pulls off so well. I love the multi-coloured rims (plse retain KTM!) and would hope they've gone for a tubeless design like the GS and Tenere.

Gotta love the focus on functional simplicity and although its not a small bike it already looks very 'light' doesn't it?

I've always liked KTM EFI. For sure it's a WYSIWYG response, but that only rewards a steady right hand IMPO. What I would like to see is an increased tank capacity (looks 22L I'd say, so probably result). And for someone to copper-slip/sort-out the squeaky brakes if it's anything like the early SMT's suffered from , particularly on the rear. Oh and some (non-orange) clocks that are more functional than the one's found on push-bikes, would be great, and then it'll be fit to laugh in the face of the burgeoning waistlines of its peers.

Make it 209 kilo with full tank. And the RC8 supplied engine retuned to around 138 hp with 85 lb.ft and quite a few people will think the future is orange I would think? If that were available now, I'd be tango'd and have my deposit down I'm sure.

roundincircles
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

Captain. It does look light and nimble, probably because I want it that way. But all the miles I did on the RC8R(WHICH IS VERY ROOMY) convinced me they had someway to go on the low speed efi induction and exhaust back pressure, ie a valve. They brought out a cam kit for the throttle cable as a fix.....even the dealer admitted his frustration.

However for you jockeys who want the satisfaction of throttle control then early KTM's will satisfy:-)

By the way I have to fight the urge to buy a Duke 690 daily.

You know I'm beginning to make a case for not buying the Trumpet but must be objective and test ride one especially as I have now been offered a sensible deal.....

Must run interference with the local, half mile away, Honda dealer tomorrow and find out if Honda will help him grow his buisiness and let him have info on the Xtourer.

Captain Scarlet
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

"It does look light and nimble, probably because I want it that way" ... that's what I figured too! ;-D

To be fair to you I've not ridden the RC8 and I know that on release the fueling wasn't great, later tidied up with map update - sounds like Ducati!

Dropped by my local Beemer dealer this salvo; after punching keys for an hour on the Mac in Starbucks natch. Anyway they had standard, triple-black and Rallye GS's on the floor. And I have to say I'd forgotten what a nicely finished product BMW turn out. Like Honda they certainly look quality, even if they don't quite match the Japanese reliability levels.

On the way home I was thinking, next year the LC-GS, Cross-Tourer and maybe even the KTM 1290 SMT (hadn't seen this then) might be out in the US. And wouldn't it be good to know how they compare when the dust settles before parting with any more hard earned? And that maybe another year with the Diavel carbon-red, would be just another one of those 'tough-jobs' but somebodies got to do it? Hhhmm am I talking myself out of the Trumpet too? Psycho-babble to follow...

"Must run interference with the local, half mile away, Honda dealer tomorrow and find out if Honda will help him grow his buisiness and let him have info on the Xtourer."
... Talking of psycho-babble. I know I've been away from Blighty and Auntie for a year now, but that paragraph was more cryptic than the Krypton Factor itself? :-D

MP1300GT
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

CS - the Triple Black GS looks really good IMO, but as you have said, it may be best to keep the Diavel another year. It is a great bike afterall.

RIC - I also think the Duke 690 would be fun to own. Don't believe it will be coming to America this year, however the Husqvarna rep I spoke to believes the Nuda 900 will be here by late Summer. One can only hope...

roundincircles
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

Well I went into the Honda dealer this morning and, as I guessed, Honda are not helping him sell bikes but a more positive gent I have not met.Honda 'expect' to deliver a demo late March for April but 'it may arrive earlier'.

I explained my interest in obtaining a bike to go down to San Marino WSB but not get shafted on price as an early adopter blah blah

He said the Tsunami impact is still an issue as illustrated by shortage of ABS equipped Honda's......no chips available and 50% of chip production is still in Japan plus lots of electronics made in flood devastated Thailand.

Anyway he got me to look at a VFR 1200. What a shock! The finish was just first class and, no exaggeration, stunning. The pearlescent white paint was faultless as were the castings and engine casings. The shaft drive has style but it is physically big.....beginning to wonder about BMW failures...

So, I think it is worth delaying a purchase decision unless the Triumph gets double thumbs up from Kevin and he buys one on the Press launch. The Xtourer, subject to agility and engine character, could be a pull over the Trumpet.

Captain Scarlet
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

The VFR build quality is stunning. And for all it's shortfalls (range and weight) it's a solidly built and reliable bike that a couple of design shortfalls aside, seems to be causing owners no pain whatsoever in terms of ownership experience. Some aspects like the no-visible-fixings multi layered fairing and the paint quality are simply delightful. The flipped indicator / horn button (you get used to it), on / off crawl speed jerky delivery (EFI or shaft?) requiring a feathered clutch hand on mini-roundabouts and a tendency to oversteer if you (wrongly) over-run the throttle entering bends, were the only genuine criticisms that I could level at the bike when I rode it. All noticeable, none genuine deal breakers. if I had one I'd call it 'Brian'; because its not the Honda proclaimed Messiah after all, but it can certainly be a very naughty boy if you want it to.

It's not just shaft-drive that BMW failed to really address, if you go to any GS forum have a look for fuel-pump issues, for instance, too. At times you'd be forgiven for thinking that more people had problems than hadn't! I do think BMW will make a better fist of the the water-boxer. For a start the GS represents roughly 35% of their global sales from their growing market share alone. I.e. It's too important to be too gung-ho; although I do read that a lot of the new GS is to come from China including the gearbox (seriously), so who knows whether that will be good, bad or indifferent. I'd probably be happier if it were Korea - it might surprise you to know that Hyundai (who own Kia) became the fourth biggest car manufacturer in the world last year; who'd have thought? Anyway, I digress. The K-series shaft seems pretty reliable and from what I can tell visually at least, that's what they seem to be using for the LC-GS. I suspect the designer of the original fuel-pump is probably now wearing a gimp suit and is bondage strapped to a tree somewhere in the Black Forest as we speak; I suspect the new one to be made of granite like build quality. But then again with the GS being such a big seller you'd have expected them to have long ago fixed the shaft/pump etc problems on the more recent boxers too, but you still read the horror warranty claims, so who knows? As I read on one GS forum yesterday - the new bike will have problems, which BMW will blankly deny, whilst feverishly sorting out in the background. And whilst they might not have the monopoly on that policy as a manufacturer, I'd much sooner my mirror kept annoyingly working itself loose say, than my shaft drive imploded or my fuel pump stopped play. The European manufacturers hold all the aces right now, but they do need to get the basics right, else we'll all start buying Honda's again. Especially if the Japanese begin to throw caution to wind and start injecting a little bit of excitement back into mainstream bikes again. For touring, the CrossTourer could well be the dark horse. It looks good, and it's build, torque and probable reliability look to be class leading too.

roundincircles
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

On my last two European trips five K series bikes had to have the shaft drives repaired. Two bikes were less than one year old, the others being 2 years old. A new 3 months old K1300S completely failed.

By the way all the bikes were repaired on a Saturday morning with 1 hours notice at a BMW dealer in Thun Switzerland....brilliant service by the dealer, crap performance by BMW.

Captain. I do not share your confidence regarding BMW's ability to carry change and improvement forwards.......it's people staying on the job and living with and owning their mistakes that implement improvement, especially in engineering know how.Just look at the detail cock-ups on the Mk 2 GS VERSUS the Mk 1. Brake lines chaffing,fuel lines replaced blah blah.

I think one of the problems is in a big Corporate office the young kids never stay on the branch long enough to shit on it.

Captain Scarlet
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

"On my last two European trips five K series bikes had to have the shaft drives repaired."
... jeez, that statement alone is probably enough to put me off waiting for the liquid cooled GS! The Tenere is solid but just doesn't do it for me. It's not so much the weight, it's more a case it looks like it needs another 20 hp and a different engine configuration. The KTM's an age away no doubt and the CrossTourer ain't coming this side of the pond any time soon either. Hhhmm, the Tiger is starting to look better again! ;-D It'll be interesting to see the CrossTourer and eXplorer go head to head, more so than how they fair against the Yamaha and BMW to be honest.

"I do not share your confidence regarding BMW's ability to carry change and improvement forwards"
... I said that 'It's too important to be too gung-ho'. I didn't say that they wouldn't be! ;-D

jcsh
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

Well I dont want to appear to be rude but opinion is opinion and fact is fact. It doesnt matter which is being expressed as long as it is made clear which is which. I've owned a KTM 990 efi adv for 4 years now and a 950 carbed SM for a year. The efi bike has truly terrible fuelling - the worst Ive experienced of any bike, but I have ridden very few other efi's, I did own an MV for about 4 weeks, sold it because it hesitated when back on the throttle coming out of bends. The 950 is pretty good but not great, but then it is a twin and all the twins I have ever ridden, including my 5 duc's, over the years have not held a candle to my old 92 carbureted 'blade for example, which was just about perfect, especially after it had been dyno tuned. For me, linear and immediate but not brutal throttle response is very important. I want to know that when I am coming out of a corner quickly with the bike on its ear, that when I twist the throttle it will support my desire for power to lift the bike up and progressively accelerate at the rate I want. If I'm really scratching its much more important of course. The same can be said for gnarley dirt riding, instant bursts of torque are not wanted when dealing with rutted ground or deep gravel. Even around town the efi bike is a pain as it snatches and lurches unless in a lower gear than it should be. I have had the throttle cam attended to and a remap. From what I hear (see hundreds of pages on adventure rider forum) the problem is STILL not fixed from the factory.
After market remaps appear to have satisfied some customers. Why KTM has not attended to this properly over the, really quite long, lifetime of this bikes is a complete mystery to me. As is the debacle over the aerodynamics - there is a thread on adv rider forum over 100 pages long about helmet buffeting with all sorts of screen mods to try to fix it.
My own experience is also pretty negative and Ive tried all sorts of things and several helmets but its far from a pleasant experience to ride this bike at more than 60mph into any kind of a headwind. KTM must know about this issue yet they have never publicly commented to my knowledge and the design of the faring and screen is exactly the same now as when the bike was first released - I just dont understand this sort of lack of iterative design and frankly puts me off their future products somewhat. Which is not where I want to be because in all other respects I think these bikes are absolutely marvellous! No bike Ive ever ridden shrugs off damaged roads and deals with bends at the same time - or even just goes round corners with such visceral ease. I have ridden 2 up with camping gear for 50km on really difficult grave and mud potholed roads that I would have though twice about in a 4x4 and had enormous fun doing it, when the tarmac came back she became a scratcher again fantastic capability and enjoyment.
I would really like to swap both in for a lighter weight version of the 990 which I believe is coming this year, but i Would so like them to demonstrate that they can address issues. The aero HAS to be fixed for example. I'm not keen on BMW's offerings - I've owned 2 GS barges and certainly not a Duc MS, I can play video games at home if I want to, I want my bike to be involving. So what does that leave? not much in my eyes...
Kevin, perhaps you could shed some light on why KTM seem to live in their own bubble?

pittsy
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

RiC said: "On my last two European trips five K series bikes had to have the shaft drives repaired."

Hell! What is failing on these things? UJ's, bearings, gears? What? Is it bad design or poor assembly, eg lack of grease? Anyone?

roundincircles
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

pittsy wrote:
RiC said: "On my last two European trips five K series bikes had to have the shaft drives repaired."

Hell! What is failing on these things? UJ's, bearings, gears? What? Is it bad design or poor assembly, eg lack of grease? Anyone?

On four bikes the oil seal failed and the rear bevel gear on the other. These bikes were less than one or two years old. Pathetic, not rocket science or leading edge engineering. Just plain mechanical stuff needing consistent 'in tolerance' manufactured parts.

pittsy
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

RiC said: "On four bikes the oil seal failed and the rear bevel gear on the other. These bikes were less than one or two years old"

Thanks RiC.

Seen it all before. You're right, it is pathetic. Cost cut penny's on an oil seal and cost your reputation millions. It's plain stupid. The annoying thing is that the Germans were on the ball with oil seals but seem to have lost the plot somewhat. I wonder where said oil seals were manufactured? My R1200R leaked oil fom the Telelever oil seals, both sides, from day one. Only a weep, so not a major problem, but still not good enough. Having it looked at duing 6k service.

Was the failed gear a result of lubricant loss/dirt ingress as a result of a duff oil seal?

jcsh
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

Excuse me please, but this thread is now way off topic :)

santacruz
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

I saw the hairy bikers last night,noticed theyve switched to ktms,adventure,smt,that smt looks a great bike,and norway looks a great place to ride a bike.

Captain Scarlet
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

I met them at Brooklands once, two really nice guys with all the time in the world to speak to anyone that they came into contact with, top guys. The SMT is a real fun ride, so good choice by them - but next year I expect to see them on Triumph eXplorers! :-D

santacruz
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

Ive always thought that if charley&ewan,had used ktms,on there long way down trips,bmw would never have sold so many gs 1200s,big mistake by ktm not backing them.

jcsh
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

Indeed. They appear to have no idea how to market their products. Only people who already know about KTM, 'know about KTM'. sad really.

roundincircles
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

KTM speculate it cost them upwards of £20m in profits per year over the long haul(pun intended)But the GS is a very good all round bike.

BMW SALES of the GS hit £220M per year AFTER Obi One and Ben Kanobi converted to Jedi travellers. That's avearage 20,000 units per annum at, say, £11000 per unit.

KTM do well to stay sane.

shuggiemac
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

I have no doubt at all that KTM shot themselves in the foot over not letting the rich actors have two free motorbikes for their television show. I don't believe however that it would have made such a huge impact on their sales if they had been used. The GS has been around a lot of years previous to the Long Way Round For A Huge Convoy Of Vehicles - er Sorry Two Blokes. I am sure KTM would have picked up some sales but BMW were and will be the top dog in that sector for some time.

santacruz
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

BMW stated that after long way round,they couldn't build 1200gss,fast enough to meet demand,and quality control dropped,i know people who purchased a 1200 gs after seeing the show,they had never considered bmw bsfore,it wouldn't have taken 3 of them to pick up a ktm 990 adventurer,after they dropped it.

Troppo
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

A mate has a new SM-T.

The horrible EFI of the early SM-R is fixed.

MUCH improved.

As to a water cooled GS...I reckon BMW should pay new owners to be beta testers....

Still, I'm sure there will be lots of the faithful lining up to be ripped off...

silvercub
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

Absolutely right Troppo, the fuelling & response on the SM-T is spot on.

Now it's better pootling around town than most Ducatis & VFR1200....

Captain Scarlet
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Re: KTM 1290 Adventure

This KTM seems to have a weight distribution problem :-D

http://youtu.be/6X53kL2zxHY