BMW K1600 GT/GTL

Finally had a chance to test ride the GTL. Here are my thoughts:

Looks are subjective but IMO the bike is finished and appointed nicely. With a beautiful dark blue paint job.

Its dash is fine but a bit too Toy like in appearance. Especially its tach. Would have preferred a bigger speedo and more accurate looking tach.

While its electronic dash now requires the use of a new circular toggle in addition to the MENU button, it's fine.

You actually sit IN the bike rather than ON it, given its very low seating position. Which is preferred on these big rigs. Harleys feel similar in this regard.

I found the seat to be very comfortable - a BIG improvement compared to my K13GT. Would be interesting to see how the K16GT feels, as the seat is different.

Its seating position, which is a bit more upright, was just fine for me - I'm 5'9" with a 32" inseam.

How does it ride you ask?

The engine sounds amazing! Especially when blipping the throttle at a standstill. Or when getting on the gas beyond 5,000rpm. Yes, the bike doesn't have the grunt you would expect between 2,000-4,000rpm. Part of this is due to its TALL gearing and part to BMW's electronic manipulation/restriction. I also found the powerband to fall off after 7,500 or so rpm - sooner than expected. The best it has to offer is between 5-7,500rpm. Not very broad for such a big engine. It is extremely smooth, however.

I found its throttle response to be DETACHED, with a delay in engine response. Very annoying, disappointing and something which I found to spoil/diminish my level of satisfaction. Too bad really. And this was in Dynamic mode.

Another negative is engine heat. Much greater than the K13 series. I suppose that is to be expected for a bigger engine, but annoying nonetheless.

Overall, given this bike's intended use, I found the dynamics to be just fine and generally very satisfying to ride despite the negatives pointed out above. Do you really want to race Sportbikes on a 750+lbs motorcycle? Not really. But it does handle surprisingly well. Infact, it falls into corners much easier than my lighter K13GT. I was really impressed. Didn't get a chance to take any high speed corners but I'm sure it would easily win any comparison within its category.

Mostly had its suspension set on Comfort mode while on NYC highways, which aren't well paved. The bike was extremely smooth on this setting. Sport mode was used briefly around a few bends. It too seemed well suited.

The bike feels VERY refined and redefines its Touring category by a long margin IMO.

My K1300GT feels much smaller, sportier, with greater performance BUT isn't nearly as refined or comfortable.

I need to test ride a GT, which my dealer doesn't have yet. Until then, the K13GT will remain in the garage.

Cheers

When I went to Cornwall last weekend I saw several K1600s out "in the wild", which was surprising for what's a new and expensive bike.

The R's good for covering distance, though a bit blowy at speed, and so I can imagine that the K is even better.

BMW Concept 6 GS

A very nice design based on the K1600 engine.

At least one can see a good portion of that attractive engine.

It's not 100% naked but the dash, headlight, rear section and tail light do look good. The proportions are very nice.

The GT and GTL only put out 138 RWHP. Touring engine versions typically develop less maximum RWHP than sport versions.

I am surprised the GT's and GTL's don't make over 150 RWHP.

This Concept R version hopefully will put out more. The VFR1200's maximum RWHP is 145 at a piston speed of 4025 feet per minute.

I would expect something over 170 RWHP in the K1600 Concept 6. It has a little more piston area than the BMW S1000RR.

The S1000RR has a very high measured 180 RWHP. At maximum HP the S1000RR piston speed is a high 4200 feet per minute.

To keep the K1600 engine narrow the bore and stroke is a little under square. All other multi cylinder sport/touring bikes have over square engines.

The VMAX has more piston area at 40 square inches. The K1600 has about 34 square inches of total piston area.

Bore = 68.5 mm
Stroke = 71 mm

The Honda Goldwing 1800 has the same 71 mm stroke.

A 71 mm stroke has a piston speed of about 3800 ft/min at 8200 RPM.
At 9000 RPM the piston speed is a very high 4200 ft/min.

A typical modern motorcycle maximum HP engine speed is about 3600 to 3900 ft/min.
Engine piston speeds above 4000 ft/min at maximum HP in motorcycle engines is very unusual.

At 4.25 RWHP per square inch of piston area at 3800 ft/min (8200 RPM) the K1600 should put out about 145 RWHP.

At 4000 ft/min maximum engine RWHP works out to about 153 RWHP.

It still has a long way to go to exceed 170 RWHP.
Achieving over 170 RWHP could be a real challenge for BMW with the present state of tune of the present K1600.

The K1600 would have to get about 4.75 RWHP per square in of piston area to achieve 170 RWHP at 8200 RPM.

The present K1600 gets about 4 RWHP per square inch of piston area at maximum HP RPM.

The Honda VFR1200 gets about 4.5 RWHP per square inch of piston area at maximum HP RPM.

One obvious way to increase maximum RWHP of the K1600R would be to increase the maximum piston speed to 4000 ft/min or higher.

The present K1600 is tuned for excellent low RPM and mid-range performance.

The K1600 red line is 9000 RPM which works out to 4195 ft/min. Almost the same as the BMW S1000RR maximum RWHP RPM.

For these reasons BMW may not use the K1600 engine in its present state of tune and instead use the S1000RR engine for their naked street fighter type bike.

As a K1600 GS (Grand Sport) the Concept 6 might work. It would be heavier but hopefully more luxurious and comfortable with better low RPM power characteristics than the BMW S1000RR.

I hope they can keep the weight 650 lbs or less. The complete engine/transmission assembly weights a light 226 pounds.

With a 71 mm stroke low RPM power is very good from even 1500 RPM. Red line is still a very high 9000 RPM.

There could be as much as 70 ft/lbs of torque at 1500 RPM. At about 30 MPH in 6th good acceleration could be possible.

The K1600 GT does about 2900 RPM at 60 MPH in 6th. This is a nice relaxed engine speed for cruising.

BMW has really changed their focus these last few years.
Their sales have been very good even during the recession.
At one time we looked to Japan for leading edge technology.
Company's like BMW and Ducati have changed that since 2009.
BMW appears to have focused a challenge directly at Honda.
BMW has found that good innovative technology sells.
They have also realised, like Mr. Honda did many years ago, performance is always number one.

JAG

Hello Captain Scarlet,

I am sorry for contributing to your headache. I have read some of your articles and like your style. Hope you will be feeling better soon so you can critique my little comment and show me where I have gone astray.

JAG

I had the pleasure of riding a GTL today and having already ridden the GT a few weeks back, wanted to share my thoughts.

The bottom line is that they are both incredible bikes that has a similar effect on me that the Diavel did, in that what it delivers is far from what my eyes tell me it should. The engine is incredible and I really can not think of a reason why anyone could not like it. The handling of both machines is a massive surprise and one hell of a lot of fun through the twisties. They certainly punch well above their weight in this particular area. The luggage carrying capacity is all that one would expect from BMW and the ease of use of the panniers and locking system is admirable. All of the gadgetry on board works well and once you figure out the switches, dials and displays then it is quite easy to navigate around it all. The riding modes that modify suspension and engine behaviour do work well and over the less than perfect roads I was riding on really showed them to their potential. I am deliberately not going into great detail here as pretty much everything has been said in the thread and what I can add is that all the good things that have been said, I endorse.

The two bikes I rode both had clunky gearboxes, though strangely not in operation as the box itself worked well and not a single change was missed. It was audibly that the clunking was evident and it is not an impressive noise. The same effect was evident from the transmission on todays GTL in as much as there was a clatter from it when rolling off the throttle but it was not something that could actually be felt. Another issue on the GTL was the rotating/rocking switch on the left handle bar. It functioned perfectly well but when pressed to the left, for activating a sub menu, it would stick in that position and not re-centre. It was easy enough to push back but it should not be an issue on a new machine.

If it were my money then I would take the GT. I think it performed across the board better than the GTL and for me was more useable. The biggest issue I have with the GTL is the screen. On sweeping back roads, where the machine is very much at home, it is important to have a good clear view of the tarmac to see any upcoming pottholes etc. Looking through the screen was not good for me as the image was slightly distorted with the curved profile and if I adjusted it to the lowest position, the top was in the bottom half of my field of view and was more distracting than looking through it. This alone would remove that model from my wish list. The GT however would remain very firmly on it.

As I said I am not going to repeat all that has been said in detail but all the superlatives do apply and when it comes to the GT then I would be hard pushed to find a fault.

The strangest part of the experience though was getting straight back on the Diavel today after the GTL and it actually felt small!

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Thoughts

Cycle World published their road test of the Ducati Daivel this month. It beat the VMAX in 1/4 mile times and acceleration and top speed. The Daivel is a direct challenge to the VMAX. I hope Yamaha responds to the challenge. The VMAX probably has enough HP it just needs to lose weight and address the small tank capacity issue.

Competition is always a good thing. I wish someone would take a new VMAX and see how light they could make it with a bigger tank and still maintain or improve handling.

I haven't found anything yet about the 2012 VMAX. Probably won't until November of this year. If it wasn't for the Daivel, Yamaha probably wouldn't change the MAX. They still may not.

In the same magazine the BMW K1600 GTL beat the Gold Wing and the BMW K1600 GT beat the Kawasaki Concours 14. Japan had better wake up and smell the roses.

Honda needs a V5 1600 to compete with the K1600's and lose 175 to 200 pounds when compared to the Gold Wing. A naked version of the Honda V5 1600 would also directly challenge Mister MAX and the Daivel.

A naked Honda V5 1600 is really what I am waiting for. The Honda VFR 1200 just comes up short. The sad thing is Honda already knows how to build a great V5. Presently, Honda seems committed to the V4 format.

I was surprised and disappointed with the roll on acceleration of the K1600 GT in 6th gear from 60 to 80 MPH at 4.3 seconds. I think my old V65 is better. Mister MAX does it in 2.7 seconds.

The difference in maximum RWHP of the K1600 and Kawasaki Concours 14 is only 1 RWHP. For all BMW's hype about the low RPM power of the 6 cylinder engine the performance numbers just don't seem to measure up.

The difference in price between the K1600 GT and Kawasaki Concours 14 in US dollars is a BIG $9,000.00. That's a lot to pay for 1 more RWHP. The Concours is actually a little faster in the 1/4 mile and almost the same from 0-60 MPH. In the end the market will decide which to choose. Both do the job well. The BMW just costs 60% more than the Concours 14.

For the cost of one K1600 GT you could have a Kawasaki Concours 14 AND a Kawasaki KLR650.

Copetown

I rode the Dealer demo last Friday. Took it for an hour, thought I might buy as I can get a good price. Was the GT model. Overall I was less than impressed . Last Night I rode my R12RT which I have not been on for awhile as the MTS has been getting my attention, my first thought on the RT was it was to me a much nicer ride than the K16GT?

So what were my impressions? Gearbox was very notchy in upshift , Drive line lash as well, I know these have been mentioned by I pride myself in being able to work a gearshift to optimum but I just couldn't get this one perfect, not good for $42K. Handling was not what I'd like or expected from reading, pretty much figured most board members with the K16 are US citizens , don't get curves? I found I could not be one with the bike in the corners .

I just wonder if it was too short a ride, all the good things people say and for me disappointing ! It is a bike that would be all about the engine I think ?

Circles , it wasn't that it would not corner, it was that it did not feel linear so to speak. Initial tip in was good but then it felt that I had to be quite deliberate in getting the line the way I like it. The other thing that annoyed me was the gearing seemed wrong for a bike with this much torque , I'd rather have a higher 6th and the other gears better spaced . I did love the sound, especially when in the mountains when I could hear the exhaust rebounding off the walls.We don't have many 4 lane roads in Australia, the majority of two lane roads are most likely called tracks in the US , I was thinking this bike might be my next two up tourer , but it is mostly engine that gets me, the other bits just don't seem synchronous !

A very well thought out report I reckon. The MD of Experience motorcycles has been made to look somewhat daft - Quite rightly too from what the report states.

Ultimately the real shame is the lost business and confidence in BMW's product that this will result in. My last BMW was a 2008-model R1200RT and I shall not be buying another BMW in a hurry as I had a few issues with mine. Nothing like this though.